Question Everything: The Power of 'Why' in Business Success and Growth

Welcome to Throb, The Reality of Business podcast. Real business chat from real people without the shiny veneer of gurus anywhere near it.

With your hosts, Bertie Cordingly and Paul Chapman, and maybe some guests along the route, we'll talk about our experiences of running a business, helping others run a business, and sharing real stories based on real experience.

Hello, Paul. Hello, mate. You all right? I'm good. How are you?

Oh, well, you know, I'm not one to complain. I will, but I'm not one to do so.

I say it would be very uncharacteristic of you to start complaining. Yes.

I don't mind a whinge. I've not noticed. Which, in a really, really tenuous way, leads on to the gay's topic. Does it? Okay. Well, last time out, we spoke.

There's no foreplay today, is it? Straight in. We normally have a little ramble. Okay.

Do you want a little ramble? Well, not really, no. You can tell some of those jokes you said earlier. Maybe not.

Look, sometimes foreplay is overrated. Sometimes you just need to go straight in, don't you? So go on, then. Straight in, dry, Paul. What are we talking about today? Brace yourself.

Well, in a nearly seamless link to where we started, there would have been a very seamlessly, seamlessly. We talked last time on AI about you should use it. I'm not going to go over the old ground.

You could just listen to the last podcast.

You could do that. You should do that, dear listener. Like anything, you don't just use it blindly. You've got to be really clear what you're using it for. And it comes back to this question, why? Why? And like in genuine things that you can do, listener, to make more money, sleep better, have a better business, have less stress. It always comes down to actually asking questions of your business. And, you know, if I was going to kind of simplify it, ask everything why. Run everything by why. And this is really interesting because you talk to people and they say they do it. Oh, yeah, yeah. But they don't. They don't do this. And this is almost kind of, you know, going to look for problems. Why are we doing it that way? Why is this person complaining? Why is this person doing the thing that is winding you up? What haven't you done? What haven't you shown him? And it's, you know, and it's all of this kind of stuff. And I think this is something that, and I know, you know, you and I like to talk in kind of broad brush. But I think actually it's a really practical thing for any business owners who have accidentally happened across this podcast. Anyone doing that, just asking why or what or how, but asking the questions of everything.

Yeah.

I genuinely think it is the most profitable thing you can do. And I mean that in terms of, as I said before, kind of sleep, stress, that sort of stuff. I think particularly at the moment, there is more pressure on businesses. There is a different kind of pressure on businesses. Businesses are almost kind of having to run at a faster pace to achieve the levels that they've always been at.

Yeah.

And as such, and you see this all the time. And do you know what? Well, you know me. I work with small businesses up to very, very big businesses. You see it across the board. Like these businesses almost being run on autopilot. And actually mistakes kind of, not even perhaps mistakes. It's almost like not quite sabotaged. These things are kind of proliferating themselves because no one stops to make the changes.

Yeah.

And I think, again, one of the reasons that people don't have time will perhaps come back to that. But I think more people need to ask why. Ask better questions possibly. I agree. Yeah.

I think there's, I think it's questioning things in general.

Yeah.

But I think it's very easy to summarize it to, yeah, just ask why, you know, and that's the book. But I suppose we're not talking about that context as such. There's the Simon Sinek book. It's called Just Ask Why, isn't it? Just Ask Why. Start with why. Start with why. Start with why. Yeah. I suppose that's all talking about what's the why of your business and why you're doing it and what's your purpose and then leads into your mission, et cetera. I suppose that's not really what we're talking about. Yeah. Well, from what I understand that you're saying here is there's definitely a lack of questioning within businesses, business owners, investors to business, business owners. Like it's this whole world that we're in. I think sometimes this question isn't asked, not even nearly enough. And I don't know whether we've spoke about this before, but I've definitely had this conversation before. I think a lot of the time, I think it starts in school, right? If you ask why, if you question something in the school environment, I mean, I've had this debates with my kids before. They're told off. If you're questioning it, well, why are we doing this? Why are we doing this, miss? You know, why, why, why? Just don't ask questions. We're just doing it. It's just because. So I think a lot of it does start there. You see, I'm always talking to my kids about, you know, question things and stuff. But I suppose there is a line, isn't there? That you go from like, you know, inquisitive, intelligent child to annoying brats. Do you know what?

That is really interesting because you actually, yeah. I think there's a separate podcast in that is actually trying to get back to the nub of each issue in your business. But you think actually, yeah, because the schools have so much to teach. They have so much they have to do because they have to hit a league table. They've got a league table so they can get pupils in. They've got to get pupils in so they can get funding. They've got funding so they can pay. And that's actually a really interesting sort of thing. And it will kind of like spread through life further. We aren't taught to ask why. Or, well, I think we, I don't know. God, that's really interesting. I wonder if we are taught either implicitly or explicitly to ask why about the right things, some things, not the right things, but not about everything. Whereas I think as a business owner, you probably have to. There's no perfect business, right? No. There is no seamless business, particularly if you have people in your business. You know, my old boss used to talk about, you know, sabotaging business.

Yeah.

And almost all of it is by accident. They're not trying to do it. But I think, you know, this is, you, this is why these questioning kind of techniques. I sat with a lady who runs quite a big business a couple of weeks ago. She was just really cross at her team because they were just making stupid mistakes. And they were doing this and doing that and doing that. You know, there's a separate part in that. But smart lady, she'd never stopped to ask why they were doing that. So I said, well, you know, are you telling me that your employment policy is rubbish? Well, no, Paul, what are you talking about? Well, you and your team that you have paid for think these people can be good, are good at what they do. Yet they keep making this mistake. So either you've got the wrong employment or actually there is a fundamental reason that you just haven't got to yet as to why that person took action thinking it was the right thing. This is where we have to get into it. What is the reason that that thing occurred? What made that person think that that was the right course of action?

Yeah.

I think that's the stuff that business owners aren't looking at. Yeah.

We take a customer, for instance, why did they buy? You know, what brought them there? These are probably questions that are quite easy to ask because it's almost in a third person. So if we were, let's just say, you know, this was our business. It's like, oh, you know, what made that customer do this? Why did they do that? Why did they do that? They're quite easy whys. I think difficult ones, if you're in a business to, I don't know, let's just say it's marketing talking to tech or the CEO talking to, or even someone talking to a CEO, actually question, why are we doing this? Yeah. Why did we make that decision? Because it's, I think it's a difficult question to ask, especially if you're questioning someone else's decision, because generally that is then followed with your opinion or your proposed fix or solution. Whereas, and again, I don't think that's where we need to be going. I think just a better understanding across departments with different teams, different people, I think that's what's often missing because this question why is often seen as a negative, as in it's almost like an, I don't know, let's just say you're marketing, well, you are marketing, but you're the marketing department, I just walk in and just like, why have we done this? Yeah. Straight away, you're on the back foot. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It doesn't, it's not, you know, and it's not that I particularly asked that question in a aggressive or even passive aggressive way. It's like, I genuinely want to understand why are we doing this? I just need to know because actually there might be some stuff that I can input, there might be a different team I could bring in to help, or I might have some experience that can make the whole thing better or worse, or, you know, there might be something, but I think these questions aren't asked and I believe they should.

It's just made me think that actually, I do genuinely think success in business is in part to a large chunk of the quality of questions. Are you saying that, that's perhaps why, although we've gone down this road, why might not be the quality question, it might be a version of that so that you almost take that turn or so, you know, so what has led us to this, you know, what went on for us to decide this was the right kind of thing and actually start to ask these questions differently so that you actually have a real culture of people going, well, look, no business is perfect. Everyone's trying to make it work. Everyone's doing what they think is right. That's fine with all that. You know, we get the likes, we can all now ignore that because we're all on the same page. How do we get here or why didn't we get here or what, you know, what didn't happen? You know, I think the customers is an interesting one. You know, when I'm launching anything new or if I'm doing any kind of presentation or I'm putting any kind of pitch together, I am trying to include in that answers to the question of what will stop them buying them? Why wouldn't these people buy this thing? Yeah. And I think kind of getting in there. And I think that's a really interesting point though. I think actually the quality of the question you ask, if you are just, you know, kind of sat listening to this just go, oh, why is that?

Why the bloody hell have they done that? Why do I?

Actually, you may not be able to get to the answer. You still need to ask the question, but actually you probably need to answer it, ask it in a slightly different way. Yeah. And I think, you know, that's possibly where, that's really interesting actually, because that's probably where this goes wrong because people that want to do this and want to try it end up doing it in the wrong way. And actually everyone's back gets up, you know, the defenses go up and actually the answer you get is one of, almost like a watered down thing. I don't want to get Monarch for this. So I'm going to say what I think is right rather than actually what it was. And actually we found, you know, this lady a couple of weeks back that actually she'd made like a throwaway comment that was picked up on, not like a bound throwaway comment, but they thought, you know, the main focus was right, well, let's go and score some goals. So actually they never defended. And she, you know, she'd almost left the team talk with, right, let's go and score some goals thinking, well, of course we've got to defend as well. And actually they didn't. I mean, it's that need for a business to go and almost look for problems.

Yeah, that's right. If you are looking for problems, you are perceived to be the negative Nancy of the group or it's there is a fine line. I think I would love people to ask more questions. And a lot of the time it does, to get, like if you're a business owner, CEO, whatever, it starts with you. So you have to empower your team to feel comfortable about asking those questions for one.

Yeah.

And it's amazing the amount of people that you speak to. And I've certainly had them. And they're like, oh yeah, no, my team know all this. They know they can ask me for it. Everyone says it. It's like, when was the last time someone asked you something or called you out on something?

And I say this to everyone in my interview or whatever. It's like, okay, well, you interviewed them 20 years ago. It's irrelevant now. People don't remember that. It's something that you have to do every day. You have to make sure. You have to invite those questions. You get people to question them. That's not showing a weakness, showing that you're questioning all your decisions. It's inviting that debate. Because how many times have you had an idea and you've thought, this is a great idea, but then you'll mention it to a friend and they've added on to it. Generally, when you're drunk at three in the morning, just going into the afters. It's like you've got this great idea and this idea builds. And by the time at the end of it, you've got this whole world domination. It's shit in the next day. But ideas, they're just a start point. And you do need this open conversation and collaboration. And asking those questions can really help. A good example of this is where people don't maybe feel empowered to ask questions. I feel like I've probably got it a little bit easier than most because my persona, I've sort of adopted this, especially when talking with higher level executives. Like I generally stay in my lane. So, you know, I'm like Yorkshire born and bred. So I don't speak the same as everyone else in these high-end executive meetings. Never went to university. But also I know that I know what I'm good at. But I don't go in there like with that, wearing a suit and just pretending that I know everything. I just go in as me.

With a black t-shirt. Exactly. Exactly.

So I can get away with generally, just like if someone's having these meetings, it's almost like acting a little bit stupid. Like, I don't understand that. Would you mind explaining it? Why are we doing this? And so it probably is a bit easy for me. But that's not... I've adopted that persona. I've created that environment. So it's not that I was just born like that. But, you know, I use that as... Well, I was born. I think you probably were.

Born wearing a black t-shirt.

But, you know, that's a tool that I use to my advantage. But, you know, most people can. It's just finding a different way of doing it.

Yeah.

Finding a way that you feel comfortable asking those questions. Because the point is that when I have had, like, you know, like a... You know, you'll have someone pitching something. And you've got 10 other executives in the room. And I'm the one that's asking the questions. And, you know, they are getting answered. I guarantee you, you know, that the person presented leaves. And then it's all just does again. It's like, I'm so glad you asked that. I had no fucking idea what they were talking about. Not a fucking clue. I didn't want to ask. Did you want to ask? No, I didn't know. Thank you. So, you know, you can be that person that asks that question. Because I guarantee if you're thinking it, or the people are thinking it as well. Yeah. There are no stupid questions. Only stupid people.

I can think of a few stupid questions. I think I'm going to do a whole pod on that. But, yeah, I think so. I think it's one of those things that actually this needs to be treated as a... As an important part of the business as marketing, finance, that sort of thing. And I think actually, therefore, I think for business owners, they need to be finding time in their world to put in time in their diary, to go and ask some questions. You know, do you know what my favourite question in any sort of business setting is? What would need to happen for... And I just think it's the question I've used that is the single most profitable thing. Because I use it in just kind of any situation. You know, like we used to do in a kind of a previous thing, we do a lot of pre-tendering for work.

Yeah.

So we'd go and speak to people and they go, oh, we've already got a supply. I'm like, yep, that's great. I'm only really here to ask, you know, what would need to happen when that contract is up for us to be in the mix. And it's just the single greatest question ever because I'm not a threat. They've got a contract. I'm, you know, I'm literally an interested guy. They tell me what I need to know. And I can either kind of yay or nay. Well, actually, yes, that's something I think I can be involved in. No, it's not. But, you know, kind of sure as shit. Next time it comes around to tendering time, lands on their desk a tender that ticks all the boxes of the stuff they're not getting already or the stuff that would need to change or, you know, and it works with kind of everything. But, you know, what would we, you know, what would need to happen for us to make more profit? The thing I like about it is, you know, to even use it internally, it just allows people to think. If I could urge anyone listening to this to do one thing today, ask yourself that question. Because that leads into, you know, what would need to happen for my marketing team to be more active, more interesting, more. And actually, it's a really pressure off question. You know, it isn't, you know, whereas like, you know, why have we done this? It can feel really personal. With something like, you know, what would need to happen for, it's a complete pressure off. But I just think it allows the thing that, you know, makes me most cross in business is people not thinking. I think this allows actual thought, proper thought, rather than I need to get my ass covered here.

Yeah, it takes away the directness, doesn't it? It's not directing it at an individual. It's more, let's put the problem on the carpet and deal with it kind of question. It's like, you know, what would need to happen for this to work? Because you could use it in business. You could use it anywhere, couldn't you? So, yeah, that is a great question because it's not as direct in your face.

A single word is difficult, you know, like why? You know, kind of how do we get to this?

I think, I don't know, man.

I think, I suppose, you know, where we're getting to here is the fact that it's difficult out there at the moment. I think we are in for some difficult years still.

Yeah.

I think, yeah, hopefully I'll prove wrong. I think kind of the last couple of quarters of the year, this year, it could be a bit of a bum fight. And you kind of find out what? Bun fight. I thought you said bum.

How would a bum fight work? When it just be bums banging into each other?

Yeah, that's exactly, that's exactly what I thought. What on earth is a bum fight?

Is that that game at school where you kind of kicked each other's backsides?

I don't know what game you were thinking of at school. No, probably. Anyway. Yeah.

I think, yeah, the point of this for me is actually, we have got difficult times. It is going to be more difficult. The actual running of a business profitably is going to get ever harder. You know, I was chatting to a firm the other day, and their weekly utilities bill has gone from something like two to seven grand. Yeah. And that's profit gone. And yes, energy prices will come down, da, da, da. But we're going to get more into this. Anyone that is running business as usual is, to coin a Shakespearean phrase, a little bit parked.

Because everything's getting squeezed. Everything's getting tighter. And, you know, there is money left on every single table. And I know it's not always about money, but actually it is, because without that, the whole thing becomes very difficult. But there is money being left on the table. And it will continue to be left on the table until it is given some focus into that. Well, look, why are we doing it this way? Why are we buying it from these people? What can we do to make that more profitable? How do we lose this? What's that? Do we need all these people? Tricky times. Business as usual is going to be hugely dangerous. Actually changing from business as usual is easy to say, harder to do. But it only comes about if you start to ask the right questions. Got you.

So I have a question for you. Okay. So what would business owners, business leaders, managers have to do?

Yes.

To empower their employees, teams, whatever, to ask why more? Do I do that?

Yeah, it's a really good question. What would they have to do? I think they'd need to talk about it.

Yeah.

They'd need to talk about the why of why. If you can sit and explain to them and say, look, the reason I'm asking you to do this, if you explain to them why you want them to ask why, in actual, practical,

understandable and personalized to them terms, it becomes significantly easier to do it. And I think that's the big thing with anything like this. The person needs to understand the importance of doing that.

I think if you're wanting people to ask why more in your business, and you should be, like even if you're a little bit on the fence about this, maybe just like, just trust it. Just try it for a few weeks, months, whatever. And I think you'd be very, very surprised at the positive results. There'll be some negativity in there, of course.

Yeah.

If you're inviting more questions. But I think that's probably what separates the really great leaders from just the average run-of-the-mill people. So I think, one, I think you've got to start asking those questions yourself. You've got to start asking people why more, but also explaining that, look, you're not micromanaging. You're not trying to trick them up. Yeah. You genuinely want to understand more about their role and what they're doing and why they're making those decisions to see if you can bring in some input. And I've known some great managers who are really, really good at that. It does put you on your toes a bit when they walk in the room because you know you're going to get asked a question. But equally, you know there's no malice or hidden agenda with it. They are just curious. And, you know, curiosity in any business is a really, really powerful thing. So I think you've got to do it more and then equally, you've got to keep inviting it over and over and over again and get people to ask questions and almost say, right, we're going to be doing this. Does anyone want to know why? And rather than just telling them, say, come on, come on, ask me, you know, ask me a question why. And then answer the question. But even if that's coming from a negative connotation, a negative place, so to speak, still answer the question. You've still got to answer the questions that have the negative answers because they're the things that then prompt more thought and prompt debate. There are some really good, enthusiastic leaders out there that are fantastic and they'll show up and they'll be there all the time like, hey, everything's fantastic. But the second the shit hits the fan, they're locked away in their office. And everyone's like, oh, like panic stations because Paul's not speaking to me today. We know something's wrong. The really, really, truly great leaders are the people that still show up but can actually still navigate through the storm as well as the calm seas. I think that's the difference. When you're getting these difficult questions, when you're getting those difficult, why are we doing this? Why did we make that decision? Why now is this happening? Because of something that we've done in the past. I think if you can then answer those questions without them reverting back to, well, it's in your fucking business because I'm the boss or whatever the fuck I want kind of mode. That's what separates the truly great leaders from the rest of the pack. And I think that's how you do it. I think you have to live by that example. I think you have to invite those uncomfortable questions and answer them. And if that starts to happen, there will be a much better culture within the business, a culture where people do feel comfortable asking those questions. And the more questions that are asked, the better the business. I guarantee it. Yeah.

I think you're absolutely right there. And I think as part of it, there's this weird thing that it's just kind of you talking there, you've made me think about failure. Just listening to your voice. And actually, there is just some of this tacit link between asking why and asking questions and, you know, kind of, you know, failure. And actually, therefore, people don't want to know if there's bad stuff. Yeah. Because they don't want to fail. And I think, you know, you made the point there, you know, that it has to start with you as a leader. And I think actually, yeah, part of this is that what have I done to allow this to happen?

And I have a great example for that. Would you like to hear it? I'm all right. Thanks. Okay. Were you supposed to say yes? Yes, please. Well, that's good because I'm going to save that for a future episode of the Throb podcast. Because we could do a whole episode around failure, making mistakes in business. And yes, I think we should talk about that in the future.

Let's do that next time. Let's do that next time. So go and ask yourself some questions, guys. Like in all seriousness, go and think and ask yourself. Pick one thing. Pick your profit. Pick your staff. Whatever it is. Go and ask some questions and try and get down to the nub of the thing that is causing that action. Because then you can fix it. Yeah. Or decide you can't fix it and get some help to fix it.

Say if you're doing something, like if something's become business as usual, so many people do this. They'll just keep doing something. I'll tell you a great example. Yellow pages, right? Yeah. Like the amount of people, like when I was trying to sell alternative services, like, oh no, we already spent two, three grand on the other pages. It's like, why? Why are you doing that? Like how much business like actually comes from that? And people don't know. And actually a lot of people just do things because they think they should be doing it.

Yeah.

Like it's just, it's a process. It's like that whole thing where, can you do this for me? It's like, well, I can't really because it's not our policy. It's like, well, why is the policy in there? Well, we don't know. Maybe, do you think possibly you could change that? So many things aren't questioned. And for businesses to evolve and keep changing, like what we're saying in AI, you have to keep up with things. You can't just rely on the rule book all the time. You have to push back on those boundaries and just question things and change and evolve and get a little bit excited and fuck up and make some mistakes and be in an environment where it's okay to do so. And that's what we need to be doing more. And that's how great businesses thrive. Love that. Love that.

Go and ask some questions. Go and ask.

Should we wrap it up there? It's done. Fantastic. Well, thank you very much, Paul.

Thank you very much, Bertie. It's been wonderful. Has it? As always. It's been all right.

I'll see you next time for another episode of Throb. If you must. Toodle pip. Cheerio. Bye.

We'll be back next week for another edition of the Throb podcast.

If you want to find out more, you can find me at paulchapmanuk.com.

And you can find me, Bertie, at bertiecord.co.uk. Thanks again. See you next week. Bye. Bye.

Bye. Bye.