Bertie's new house, businesses that hate their customers and Paul doesn't buy a field

Welcome to Throb, The Reality of Business podcast. Real business chat from real people without the shiny veneer of gurus anywhere near it.

With your hosts Bertie Cordingly and Paul Chapman and maybe some guests along the route, we'll talk about our experiences of running a business, helping others run a business and sharing real stories based on real experience.

Hello, Paul. Hello, Bertie. Why aren't you as excited as I am?

Because I'm sitting this side of the table looking at you. I don't know why you're excited. I mean, look at me.

How's your kind of pop?

It's lovely. We're just discussing pop. It's a northern thing, I think. I don't think south of us. I don't know.

Would you not reference it? Would you not say to your kids, you want some pop?

No, we don't really do pop in our house. No, what do you have? They can have some squash or some water. Right. A bit of juice. Yes. Okay. Williams decided he quite likes Coca-Cola. Other terrible sugary drinks are available.

Well, this has no sugar in it. This is Coke Zero.

Yeah, I think that's like a... I always kind of think that's like a Boris Johnson promise. It's like that, well, everybody's going to get richer from this. They're not, though. Let's just move past it. Let's just move past it. But I think pop's a northern thing. I think, you know, it's... Like my mates had pop and they were kind of work-stoppy, kind of sheffleding and upwards. Anyway, that really has nothing to do. What did we talk about today, mate?

Good. So I've been looking at different houses and things lately. So got the moving bug, I think people have right now. So, yeah, just been looking around. And I'm very impatient. I think I see something and want to go and see it straight away.

Yeah.

It's like you just get excited. You know, so we've been looking through Rightmove this morning. All the other estate agent websites are available. And I was in town a couple of days ago. Town being Nottingham City Centre.

Yeah.

And that's the area that I'd like to move to. I was just like looking through Rightmove and then was like, oh, treasuring an estate agent, no answer. You know, stuff like that just pisses me off. And then realised I was in a restaurant that was like two doors up from the office that just went in there. Yeah. And what struck me, like houses aren't cheap things to buy, are they? You know, like if you sell a house, you're making quite a lot of commission from said property. And just went in there and someone was having a conversation already. Now, I get, you know, like, you know, there's other customers to deal with. I'm not the only person in the world. I am very aware of that. Although sometimes. Are you? Well, not all the time.

Mate, in your house, the lights turn off when you're not there and turn on as you arrive. That's. Your poor family's sitting in darkness and you're in the room.

Anyway, that's another story. But lights aside, I walked in, they didn't turn the lights on straight away. But nobody greeted me either. And that pisses me off.

Yeah.

As in, I think there is, you know, there's always that. Yeah, we'll just be with you in a second. Like they kept now and again making eye contact just in this really awkward way, but not saying anything, not acknowledging, not even looking like they're even slightly busy. Just it was just like this sort of nothingness while they just fiddled a few files and pretended to be doing something and then sort of spoke to somebody else. Then their colleague down the stairs and they had a completely random conversation. And I suppose this is where it gets a little bit complex. There was a property I really wanted to look at that was in the window. Hence, I hung around in this estate agent. So I've not seen this one on right move. So eventually when they did talk to me, a good sort of few minutes had passed. But at that point I could have left. Yeah, that's. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think that's the point. But I didn't because, yeah, I wanted to see this thing. And the reason, though, that it wasn't on right move is because they had something in the window that hadn't even been on sale for like four or five months. Didn't even know anything about it. It takes two seconds to print something out and replace it. So that's supposed to just false advertising. So anyway, so I'm in an estate agent's office with people that just haven't got a fucking clue. And, you know, they can't even bother to keep their displays up to date. I mean, I thought we were past this. I thought these things, these are the simple things that people should be doing. Right. I mean, am I just having a rant? What do you think?

I mean, it's fine margins, isn't it? You know, fine margins will put people off. We've said before, every market is massively crowded. You can't do anything that's putting people off. You need to know your stuff. You know, it is. And it's interesting because, you know, estate agents have, I mean, they have a bad reputation. Yeah, they do. And, you know, I think that's massively unfair. There are some genuinely brilliant estate agents. I had coffee with one last week. I love Bray. He is just an absolute. I love what, I mean, he's a great guy anyway. But, yeah, I follow his social feed. And he's just, he's just really good. Yeah. And he does all the stuff. He does it really well. Hence, he's got a, you know, he's got a great business. He's, you know, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. But it is a really interesting thing. I think all my experiences with Sage, I mean, I don't know, I don't know how many houses I've bought and sold. Not lots and lots. But all my experiences have just been a, just rubbish. You know, I've always come by thinking, what have you done for the money? And I'm sure they are doing stuff. And I don't, you know, it's that. But it's, you know, I can remember when we came out of Birmingham, you know, because you sell your house. You look at the fee. You think, well, what are you doing with this fee? And that was, well, you're putting it on right now. That's all you've done. And then, oh, well, we ring lots of people. And you think, well, but it hasn't worked. You know, we've had seen civil. They said, I saw it on right now. Contact the agent. I've come around to look at it. And it's an interesting use because you can't, you can, but you can't really move house without an agent. Yeah, of course you can, but you don't. And it is, you know, I mean, I, one of the things that is on my bucket list, something I am kind of working, I want to patch a land. I want to patch a land, ideally a bit of woodland, trying to, yeah, kind of trying to buy this.

Do what with it?

Just have a bit of land, keep a bit of space, somewhere for the kids to roam, somewhere for me to roam.

What, to live on or just a...

No, no, no, I just, I get, I don't want to say weird, I'm just very relaxed and calm in trees. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, I just want to patch a land. Yeah, I want to patch a land because it's a thing, you know, and I'm very happy with this being like a weird thing, but I want to own some land, I want to have that greenery, I want to be able to plant some trees. What, like near your house or...? Yeah, yeah, somewhere, yeah. And this is a challenge and it's not really anything to do with the proper car. You know, there's loads of land that I could buy.

No, we're not letting this go because I've got lots of questions, carry on.

Yeah, there's loads of land that I could buy. I mean, and this is, okay, we'll go somewhere with this because this is a really interesting... I want this patch land, I want to have it... It's just a thing, okay? I'll come back to kind of the estate agent part a second. I found a bit, or I thought I'd found a bit the other day. Middle of nowhere, nothing there. Because the problem with land is that people with money want to buy it and put houses on it, which is fine. I get that. And I saw this patch of land, it was less than half an acre.

Yeah.

It was two or three miles from any kind of conurbation. There was no water, no electricity. Like, no one was going to build a house here.

Yeah.

Because it's miles away from anywhere, it's scrubland, there's just nothing there. Yeah, you know, it would cost a fortune to get electricity and water in. So I'm like, I'm in, I'm there. And, you know, in a small packet, and it was, I think, a guy price of five grand. So I'm like, okay, my budget is X on this. Because you know it's going to go. Because a lot of other people want to. But I was really confident on this one. Have a guess what it sold for. Half an acre of land in the middle of nowhere. No planning permission, no...

I genuinely have no, like, I've got no idea what one would buy land for.

This bit of land sold less than half an acre, middle of nowhere, 96,000 pounds.

Wow. You can't do anything with it.

But I thought, I thought you said it was five grand.

That was the guy price. So the auction starts at five grand. Right. And then bang, bang, bang, bang, bang. And it just goes to like 96k, which is just, it's nuts. And I presume someone is now going to put a cool house on there. But, you know, that is an insane amount of money. And then you need planning. And then you need to get water. They need electricity. Anyway, anyway, no. So look, one of the things, I want some land. I thought, you know, I rang an agent. What were you going to do with that?

So if you bought that land. Yes. If you'd have won that bid. Yes. What would you have done with it?

I would have basically put a, like a wild camping spot on there. So probably a couple of huts. Maybe one hut. You know, somewhere that, you know, people that, I don't want to bike pack. So there's a place for them to go. Just a really nice middle of nowhere, proper. Just go sit in the wilderness. I love it. Take a few beers and just go sit and enjoy that kind of thing.

So let your own park then.

Yeah.

I'm going to put a slide and a spring in it. And a gate. What are those 90s climbing frames that, you know, the ones that are definitely legal now. They're just high and over concrete.

I mean, it seems like a big investment just to go and sit. Like, why don't you just go and sit in that land anyway? I think the fight that, like, put the money in a bank account, right? And just save it for any, any fines you get for trespassing. I mean, you know, like, then you've got like the risk of being shot. It's much more exciting. Don't buy the land and just go in camp in other people's land. I don't think people can shoot you. I mean, that was always a rumour at school, wasn't it? Like, don't run the farmer's field, you'll get shot.

Well, I have some high profile cases about that we should definitely not talk about because that way lies big lawsuits. Anyway, anyway. So I found this patch of land and I rang the estate agent. And no one has ever been less helpful. And I just, I don't get this.

Maybe they did get why he wants to buy a patch of land, but. Stop being in.

They are selling this patch of land on behalf of someone else. Yeah. Obviously. They make their money by this land go. Why were they selling it? Do you know? No.

That's always the first question when you buy something. Like, why are you selling it? It is. No. Well, if you're buying something, you want to know why they're getting, like, secondhand stuff. Like, you ask that question. Like, why are you selling it?

Because I want to move house. Well, OK. Well, that's it.

Well, there's no house on there.

Well, so this house that you're going to look at and not in, did you go and find the owner who wasn't there and then say, why are you moving?

I asked the question why they were moving. Yeah. And what did they say? They said, the owner.

They want to move house. No.

They've already moved house. They live in London. They've just got this. And they just give it to, like, friends and family to come and stay and stuff.

I have a sneaking suspicion this might be our last podcast. Because this is terrible.

Anyway. Anyway. Paul. That's really clamors to get us back on track.

OK.

So what's happening here is I'm effectively ringing someone to say, can I give you some money? Yeah. OK. Difficult pot took a bit of land from the five grand piece. But so back to the original story. What's the original story? I'm ringing. And just couldn't be helpful. Like, yes and no questions. Yes and no answers. And I'm like, well. And it just, you think, OK, I mean, it was, yeah, I don't know, a 20 grand piece of land. Whatever it was. And it's just, I just don't get it. And I think, you know, this industry, and this is really unfair, because I know that it's good ones. But they seem to get away with it. I don't know. So maybe it's just us getting cross, but like bad service. Just because you don't know. You don't know that person that's calling. No. Yeah. They might be an investor. They might want loads of stuff. And it is. You just, I just don't get it. And it does seem to be not particularly in our industry. That's really unfair. Yeah, but there are plenty of people, if we ask the world at large, I bet more people have had a less than positive relationship with their estate agent than.

Yeah, I mean, it's, my house was up for sale. And then I took it off because we didn't have anywhere to go. And then, like, I would go, like, I really, I actually, the estate agent that I was working with, I really liked. And, yeah, I, like, have I worked with bad estate agents? Oh, I suppose, yeah, I must have done. I must have done. I suppose, yeah, my, my, because when you started and said estate agents have a bad rap, I thought, do they? Do they? I don't know. Maybe they do.

I suppose, I don't, I suppose, it's interesting, actually, as you said that. I don't, I don't think they're bad. I, you know, I suppose I've not had a bad experience. And I've always come out thinking, what have they done? What have they, you know.

Yeah, it's like what you're spending your money on, isn't it?

Yeah, like someone like Richard, I took my early guy on the phone. You know, I can, you know, you see what he does. You see how hard he works. You see the different ways he markets. You see, and, you know, it's, I don't know, maybe we need to broaden this out. Because I certainly don't want to bash any industry.

Recruiters, let's go for them. Like, there you go.

Although, again, I met a good one the other day.

But you can't, like, no, recruit, no. There's no, no, no. There's none.

And I think that, I don't know. And again, this is complete conjecture.

Yeah.

Because, and please don't send me rude emails. If you do, my email is Bertie, B-E-R-T-I-E at.

I don't give a fuck.com. Yeah. Yeah.

But I think a lot of this is a cultural thing. You see, like, why doesn't it change? But actually, there's always a legacy. Like, even, like, new people come in, there's a legacy of just, well, that's how we do it. That's how it is. Bad service. Bad service.

It should be a thing of the past. Mm-hmm. But somehow it still goes on. I mean, it should be a thing of the past because there are so many people in the same industry. But I think there are industries where actually stuff just isn't done very well. It's not thought very well. But, and again, I don't know, maybe, let's go back a step to where you answer this. You know, that, that kind of not greeting people. I don't need someone to jump up and go, hey, welcome, that sort of thing. You know, and if you are speaking to someone, it's so easy to say, you know, just to literally look at you and say, yeah, it'll be two minutes.

And then, yeah, that's it.

That's what I was talking about.

Just it's acknowledgement. And that's, you know, going back to my self-ordered training. You know, that was, you know, drilled into you. Like, you acknowledge customers. You don't necessarily go and, like, annoy them or, you know, ask them if you can help. But, like, if they're at least, at least just acknowledge. And if someone's coming in and you're on the phone, just, you know, yeah, I'll be with you in a second. Just do I'm waiting. That stuff just goes so far into just, yeah. Making that relationship better. Because you can just lose it like that. Yeah. Like, there are so many other estate agents. As you say, like, you only have to go and right move. Like, you don't have to, you know, there's multi-agent and all that other stuff. Like, it was only because I happened to be in the city. But if it wasn't for that place, they didn't even fucking have. Maybe that was their marketing technique. Maybe they just put a nice house on there to try and attract me, get me in the door. But, yeah, they've not changed the signs for ages. So, yeah, I don't think there's any ever an excuse for poor service. Ever. Yeah. Even if you've got a real high value stuff and you're, you know, like, you know, it's like the whole pretty woman scenario, right? You know, like, you know, everyone knows the film. You know, you walk in, you assume someone can't buy it. And then, you know, then they probably could. Like, that stuff happens all the time.

You're in your bike shop. Yeah. Well, that was different, wasn't it?

I just didn't go into the doorman. But, no, I did have that. I had a, I wasn't going to buy a dress or shoes or whatever it was in the film. It was the first time. I can't remember if I spoke about this in a previous podcast. But if not, you get treated to this story again. Excellent. You can go back, listen and see if there's any indiscrepancies.

Indiscrepancies?

Surely just a discrepancy. An indiscrepancy would be truism. Doesn't matter. People have stopped this the ages ago, so just keep talking.

But when I said that word, I thought, that doesn't sound quite right. But, anyway, you can see if there's any discrepancies. Correct. Thank you, Paul. So, yeah, I went to buy a car. So, it was when I first got my job as a door-to-door salesman.

Yes.

And then I was a manager for said company and got a car allowance. And up until then, like, I'd always had, like, just shit cars or, you know, second-hand cars. Like, I'd only ever spent, like, you know, like, a couple of grand on them. They would always break, et cetera. So, I'd never bought anything from a forecourt. Certainly bought anything, even close to looking new or any sort of prestige brand. So, I got a car allowance. So, the first thing I did, I was like, right, okay. Worked it out. I'm going to go get a Merc. Like, I want a Mercedes. Nice. That's where I can get. I can afford it. I'm going to do that. Company's paying for it. Let's do it. So, walked into Mercedes in my NTL puffer jacket because I was doing sales.

Nice.

And literally nobody spoke to me. They all looked at me and then sort of turned their backs. Like, literally, pretty woman scenario. Nobody came to speak to me. Nobody gave me the time of day. Then started looking around cars. Nobody approached me. Like, just nothing. Just completely, completely snubbed. So, walked out of Mercedes and went to BMW. And everyone there was completely friendly. Made me a coffee. Sat me down. And, yeah, that still, like, just really grates on me when I think about it. Do you know what?

That's really interesting. I don't know how to tell this story without sounding like a complete prick. Please try. I think the ship has probably sailed. We won't judge. I had a really similar thing at Audi. Anyway. Yeah. But, I don't want to sound like a knob here. But, I would suggest I looked okay. I can understand. I don't understand it. But, I know what you're saying. I was in with my puffer. I didn't know that. You know, I was there. You know, smart jeans, smart shoes. I know we're there. Because, there was an event. And, I was there. You know, tweed jacket, obviously. Nicely pressed shirt. Which is pretty much. Yeah, that's how I go to bed. Like, a well-pressed shirt. Cufflinks. And, a tweed jacket. I was just kind of looking around. You know, oddly, I was looking. I had a. The only car, other than my van, that I've ever loved was in an Audi A4 estate. I just, I loved it. It looked incredibly dry. I just. Anyway. But, it needed to go. And, I was looking to get the new version of. And, this guy just couldn't have been more dismissive. And, it was that sort of pretty woman moment. And, but I don't know why. I mean, maybe. Maybe I just didn't look expensive enough. And, I'm not. Because, you know. I mean, genuinely. All please take your side. I'm, you know. I'm not premium. I'm not kind of a big hitter here. But, I would say I looked smart enough to have. For him to have looked at me. I thought, there could be a possibility for sale here. But, just so dismissive. Just so kind of. Yeah. And, like, you know. Wrote it down on a piece of paper. And, it just. And, I don't get it. I just. You know. Why? Because, again. Presumably they do all right out of these commissions. Why aren't they trying harder to sell more? Yeah. Obviously, I don't know. I don't know the answer. Which makes the rest of the podcast quite difficult. But.

Well, yeah. I think we can still talk around it. I think it's. A lot of the time it's pre-judgment, isn't it? And, everybody. Like, we can't. As much as we don't want to judge people. We do. Everybody does it. Yes. And, you just do it naturally. You'll look at someone. And, you will instantly make a quick judgment on them. First of all. I think you've got to accept. That that's normal. And, that's okay. I think you can't beat yourself up for judging. Because, I think it's just a natural human thing. You see something. And, you're on autopilot. You just make a decision. Like, you know. If someone's scruffy. You assume they're poor. But.

You don't have to necessarily act on that stuff. And, I think this is where we can rise above it. So, just because someone's coming in. You do make that judgment. You think. Well, actually. I don't have to act on that preconceived idea. That I just naturally have. Let's actually go and talk to this person. As a human being. And, treat everybody equally. And, I think that's where a lot of people make mistakes. You can just judge. Like. And, I used to see it all the time. When I used to knock doors for a living. So, I would be walking. Like, with. You know. Because, you'd all just sort of meet and knock in the same area. And, people would just miss entire streets. And, it's like. Oh, no. We're not going to knock on there. Like. They'll just be posh. They won't want to talk. It's like. You don't know who's behind that door.

Yeah.

Those judgments are very easy to make. But, you're in control then of what you do with that information. So, whether you were judged in Audi. Whether I was judged in Mercedes. I suppose that's one thing. Or, sometimes people just can't be arsed. Can they? Yeah. I think.

It's quite interesting. Because, that sort of judgment on customer. It's something I saw quite a lot of in. Kind of the hospitality world. Ages ago. I did a. I helped set up a business that was. Yeah. Effectively. Like a loyalty scheme for restaurants. It was backed by a really good CRM. And, yeah. It's a great. Great product actually. And, again. It ties into kind of what we were talking about previously. But, and actually. What this did is that. It gave. It tracked people's spend. Okay. And, it gave people real visibility. On who their best customers actually were. Because, for a lot of these kind of pubs, restaurants. That sort of thing. They think this. You know. Like. They love Bertie. Because, Bertie came in. Flash suit. Friday night. Chucked a load of money around. Life and soul of the party. Noisy. Loud. Loved him. Beers. Fun. Nice guy. Excellent. So, they're loving him. They're loving him. And, you know. He's the guy that gets. Oh, yeah. That gets. Don't worry about that BMA. That's on us. Yeah. And, you know. Kind of blah, blah, blah. Which is all very good to do. But, actually.

Have you been watching me on Friday night? Yeah. Essentially. That is you.

But, their best customer was Stephen Maureen. Who sat in the corner. Never made a sound. Yeah. But, ran every Tuesday spending 70 quid. And, had been for the last 50 years. And, they had never. No one had ever said thank you. No one had ever given them the free beer. You know. They. And, you know. And, that's the thing. You know. You do make these. You know. You do make these assumptions. But, most often. Assumptions are wrong. Yeah. No, no. Yeah. Most often. Assumptions are wrong. This is where kind of having the. Having the visibility of the numbers behind it. Because, you know. Yes. You want both customers. But, you know. Joe and Maureen. Or Stephen Maureen. Whoever they are. That's the money. They've been ticking along for the last years. And, no one's ever done nicer money. I think. No. This kind of thing. It allows you. Sort of. It allows you to see. What is really going on. Who is really paying. And, then you can. Thank them. Do stuff about it. And, think. Well, okay. Look. But. Yeah. Berta. Yeah. He is. He is loud. But, actually. He drinks. Weak piss beer. There's no margin on it. Actually. It's just not worth it. Not that we're going to piss him off. But, you know. We will. He's not the guy we thought we are. Or, whatever it is. Yeah.

You've got to analyse that data. And, see. Like, if I. I've sort of mentioned before. Like, you know. There's a couple of, like. Local butchers and stuff that I use. And, you know. There's what. Like, I mentioned the bacon before. And, I always buy the bacon. In bulk. Right. And, I'll go there. And, I'll spend like. Yeah. They'll do me a deal on their bacon. Which was the equivalent of the packets that I used to sell. And, I've always just got that. Like, it's probably half the price of just buying it. You know. As Doris will be buying. And, the same with the chicken. I'll buy it in the big packet. So. Yeah. I'll go to the butchers. And, maybe. Like. Spend. 60. 80 quid there. A time. But, I don't do that every week. I'll do that. Every day. Yeah. Yeah. You know. Every month. Or, something like that. And, then I'll just. I'll separate it all. Backpack it. Freeze it. You know. It's all. It's all. It's all a very efficient operation. Accordingly to hours. Yeah.

The hours must fly by. But, you know.

You could see me as a customer. And, like. Everyone else is in there. Spending, like. A tenner or fifteen quid. So, you might think. Oh, I am a really good customer. And, I suppose. On paper. I am. But, I feel I buy everything quite efficiently. So, I'm getting. I'm walking out with shopping bags full of meat. Like. You know. I'm buying quite efficiently on there. So, even though I am a good customer. They're not making as much margin. As the people that might be going in there every other day. But, only spending a fiver. Because, you know. They're selling it at a much higher margin. So, you have to understand that data. But, when I walk in there. I'm the guy that spends a hundred quid every time I go in. So, you know. I do get that. Oh, hello. You alright? That's how it works. And, you need both. You do need both.

Businesses need both. Yeah. And, this is. Again. We're back into that importance of. Find a way to track it. Go and look at it. Go and interrogate your data. Go and look at. Go and actually see. Look. How much does Bertie spend at the bar? Or, is he just. And, I don't mean that. I'm like. You know. Is he just. You think he's everywhere. Actually, he's not everywhere. You know. Go and interrogate. Go and arm yourself. In a business. You need to arm yourself. With as much knowledge. Data. You know. Backable stuff. Mm-hmm. As you can. Because then you make all your decisions. Based on facts. Not hunches. And, you think. Well, okay. How do I go and get. More. Stephen Maureens in here. Because, actually. They're the people that have kept this thing going. For 20 years. Right. Okay. Well. I'll go and be nice to them. I'll go and help them. I'll go and suggest they bring a friend in. You know. And we sort of. You know. Back into it. Like. Give them a reason. To bring their friends. How do they make it. What are the kind of things that you can do. And I think. You know. You've got to have this. I think. I'd get. Well. Perhaps we always. You know. Maybe this stuff isn't. I was about to say. I think people forget this. Maybe they don't forget it. Maybe everyone does it. Maybe we're just kind of. Preaching to the. No. I don't. But. No. I don't think.

I don't think everybody is. I don't think everybody is.

I'm as guilty as. As anyone else. You know. I've. You know. You have your list. It's only you sit down. I think. Oh yeah. Actually. It was. ABC. Yeah. Oh yeah. Don't get me wrong. Everybody does it. Yeah. Me. And you know. As you say.

You included.

Yeah. It's. You can't do everything. Can you. You know. So. You'll always prioritize. You know. What you think is right. But I think. So. You know. Going in and analyzing your data. And figure out. All your best customers are. That's a really good thing. If you've got the time to be able to do it. But. That isn't necessarily what we're talking about here. We're just being. You know. Like. Don't necessarily be a dick to people. Who you are assuming. Yeah. Aren't going to be your customers. And you know. Of course. For a different. You know. If you're in a real high turnover.

Somewhere with loads and loads of footfall. And you know. You can constantly.

I'm a virtual assistant.

If you're in somewhere.

If you're in somewhere.

That's got loads of high footfall. And you've constantly got like. Like dickheads coming in. Then of course. You know. We're not expecting you to be. Nice to everybody. But the examples that we've gave in. Like. Really. In estate agents. How many people do you actually.

Really get to the door. Like.

Just fucking say hello. Just say you're going to be with someone. In a minute. Make sure your signs. Are up to date. So. You know. Those. Those. Those basic core things. I think is what we're talking about now. And yeah. And I think.

Recognize the issues that you have. And work out a way to do it. Like that. You know. Let's just say that. Estate agent. Was. Do you know what. They've only got one member of staff. Because. Kind of costs. Blah blah blah. Whatever it is. Well look. Understand that's the reality of the business. And find a way to do about it. Yeah. You know. It could just as easily say. You know. You could easily. You know. Because I do get that. If I'm talking to you. And someone comes in. And we're mid sentence. You don't want to stop. And now. And you know. Stop the conversation. And say. I'll be with you in two minutes. Because it tells you. You got two minutes before you're out. Yeah. And I do get that. Well look. That's fine. The reality. How do you do it? You know. If there was a little sign. As I went in. And said. Look. If we're chatting. We won't be too long. Help yourself to a coffee. Yeah. And there's a coffee machine. Oh yeah. Just go next door. On a flat white. Whatever it is. You know. You just look at these things. And look. How can I do it? You know. They're not. I'm sure they're not. Intentionally trying to deliver shit service. No. I don't think so. But. Yeah.

I don't think they are. And I think this is probably. Like a training issue as well. You know. A lot of the time. Like you know. It could be. Yeah. People just don't know how to deal with that situation. They've never been told. I was fortunate. You know. Working somewhere like Selfridges. Service was drilled into you. Yeah. So you know I've taken those lessons. And carry them on. And you know. Working before then. I worked for BT. So Telefonetica. And all of that sort of stuff. And selling. You know. Sort of tips. You know. I've learned those through experience. But once you know those things. They're just really obvious. I suppose you start to see them everywhere. But you know. It's not necessarily on that particular person. It's down to the person that's employed them. And trained them to make sure that this is drilled in. Because. And we've spoke about this time and time again. And you lose customers from it. You do. You know. You are letting people walk out your door. Yeah. I mean. Are you though? I mean. Yes you are.

In the grand scheme of things you are. And this is. And again.

I didn't buy the Merc. I really wanted a Merc. Yeah.

But this is one of the problems with. Some industries. Yeah. Like. If the house. You really want to buy. If you're going to look at it. Tonight. And it's in. It's in their window. You're not. Not going to buy that house. Because of the estate agent. That's selling it. Are you? No. No I'm not. And this is. This is kind of part of the problem with it. Isn't it? That they don't have to be any good. Because they know. No. Yes.

In that instance. Yes. And this is. I suppose. This is. Where you've really got to look at the bigger picture.

No.

If they had the house that I wanted. Then I'm going to use that estate agent. I have no choice. It's supply and demand. I have to go in there. Like. If I really want that house. Then I'm just going to have to deal with them. And. Yeah. That's just it. But that isn't necessarily what I'm trying to get across. So. In that instance. Yes. You know. Had that thing. But. Let's just say that. I was wanting to. So. My house currently isn't on the market. Let's just say that. I had a bad experience with another estate agent. I'm never going to use those. I'm never going to use them. If anybody asks me now. Where to sell their house. Not only am I going to recommend somewhere else. Where I've had a good experience. I'm going to actively say. Don't use those. Don't use. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's. So. It's. It's those small. You know. Just the facts. Like. It's. And it wasn't just the not saying hello. It's then when I actually got in. Like. They couldn't find anything. And everything was wrongly listed. And.

It was just. A shambles. And since then.

There was other properties that wanted to look at. I've not had follow-ups on. And then there was. Someone else was going to call me. I've not had the call. It's. All of that stuff. So. It isn't just one isolated incident. It's like. You can do better. You can do better. And especially. You know. We're not just talking about.

Selling. You know. Some chewing gum. From behind the. A corner shop counter. You know. This is. It's a. It's a high. Ticket purchase. It's a big. Emotional purchase. And. For an estate agent. And as we've already said. There's probably not that much to it. In relation to the. Commission that they would be getting. For selling that. You know. Like it's. It's. I don't know. What is it like. Let's just say 1%. It's a lot of money. That you're. You're making off that. Off that sale. I think.

I suppose a lot of it goes into. Because I bet they're doing other stuff. I bet they're advertising elsewhere. I bet they're doing pay-per-click. I bet they're. Online. Blah, blah, blah. But if. If you haven't got the basics right. It all falls apart. You know. Like. Like having. You know. Knowing where the property is. Yeah. I don't know. In their offices. You know. Where there's. You know. You know. Greeting people. Saying hello. You know. Having that entry process. You know. And I think. You know. These are the little wins. You know. This is kind of. You know. Dave Brailford's. Marginal gains things. All these little things. They contribute. And actually. Like I say. Next time you are selling. You're never going to go to that agent. Yeah. Whereas. Yeah. Conversely. As. I mean. Hopefully. I never sell my house. I just want to be carried out in a box. I love it. I don't really want to. Be elsewhere. But if I did. Just straight to Rich. Dead easy. It's not even a conversation. It's not even a thing. He's the guy. You think. Yeah. That's what I want. That's what I. You know. And it's. And that's again. That's a frustrating thing. Is because. Even if you're not sure. All the evidence is out there. To go and copy. To go and follow. To go and do that thing. And it is. You know. But it's. There is no excuse for just bad service. No. Exactly. You know. Right. Because yeah.

That bad service then. You know. That's your entry point. Right. And we spoke about this. Many many times. You know. You've got that entry point. Into a business. And that's hard enough. You know. It's then even harder. To keep those customers. To get them to go back. And the last episode. We were speaking about that Friday.

And you know.

All of these. All of these things. Form a much bigger. Strategy. Right. Yeah. So. You get it wrong at the beginning. And every. It's like dominoes. Then you never. You knock that first domino over. And if it's not aligned. Right. With the rest of the dominoes. You're not even going to get to see. The magnificence. Of the other things. You've put in place. Because you've just fell at the first hurdle. Yeah.

And it doesn't take too many dominoes. One. Possibly two. You're allowed. Before they just. Can go on to the next. Because. There's a million estate agents. Yeah. There's a million lawyers. There's a million plumbers. Whatever it is. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. You need to get that. That stuff. Right. From the start. And it's easy to do. Because it's. Common sense. That's the. That's the killer. You know. Yeah. I think. You know. This person I rang. That couldn't have been more unhelpful. You think. Well. That's like business 101. If someone rings. They're ringing. To possibly give me some money. Yeah. Well let me try and do something about that. Let me try and help that along. You know. And that. You know. That manner. You know. That manner of just being so dismissive. You think. And you know. They know. Because. I'm ringing about a specific thing. They've got it. I want it. They don't care. Yeah. But actually. The bigger picture on here. It's just. And you're saying that. I have since told people. Don't work with ABC. Yeah. I mean. I might be really unfair. I might have got. Can we just. Can we just point out. That we're not.

There might be an ABC. Yeah.

There is an ABC. No. They're brilliant. I don't know. Yeah. It's not them. But. Yeah. Simple stuff. Do the simple stuff. Well. Look. Think about it. Because. Okay. We've had like. Kind of sporadic different examples. But something is happening in your business right now. That is sabotaging your next sale. Yeah. You've got to find it. It might be. You know. It might be. Poor website. It might be a broken contact box. It could be any one of these things. And it happens. But you have to actively look at it. And you have to try and eradicate it. Because it is so easy. For someone to move on to the next thing. Exactly. And there might. You know.

There might even be something that's. That's there. That's not necessarily. That's. You know. Working okay. That maybe if you just tweak it. Or change it. Could work even better. Yeah. I was thinking earlier. You know. Like we spoke about like loyalty. And you know. I was saying about my stint in Selfridges folding towels. I remember they did a competition once. For the sales people. And you know. You've been in department stores. You know what. You get to the counter. It's like. You know. Have you. Have you thought about our account card? And you get that. And you get 10% off the first thing. So there was a. There was a competition. To who could do the most account cards. And there was a prize. And I was like. Right. I'm having this. But rather than. And just doing it from behind the counter. I asked. I was like. Do you mind if I just take a table. I'm just going to stand at the top of the stairs. And get people. Actually talk specifically. That one thing. That one simple change. And actually having someone there. That was. You know. Happy to. I was the guy from the north. That spoke to people. Londoners weren't used to that. Yeah. At the time. Yeah. Probably still aren't. You know. Like. As the making conversation. Like. Have you ever done that in the tube? Like. Don't. Don't. Don't. It's just not. It's just not worth it. It's just not worth it. When I moved down there. I found that. Hello.

I found you quite quickly. I go. Hey. All right. Did I die.

Die person from the north. Die. But. You know. Having that. That friendly northerner. You know. I was probably much friendlier at the time. At the top of the stairs. Selling account cards. I sold more account cards. On my own. Yeah. In that day. Then everybody in that entire store. I'm probably still down as a selfishest legend somewhere. I'm sure they must have me. On a plaque. Yeah. I'm sure they have me. They probably don't. But. You know. Just those things. Like. You know. If you're doing something. Actually. How can we then extract that? How can we do it a little bit better? Like. These are all things we should be thinking about in business. Yeah. All things we should be thinking about. And you know.

Let's wrap it up with. Just think more. And I know I'm boring. And I know I say this all the time. Everything. Just think more. About every aspect of your business. Yeah. I know. Comes in a bigger issue. Which we should perhaps talk about next time. Is how you actually kind of create space to think more. Let's do that. Let's do. The next one. We will do something about. How to think more. How to create the space. How. What. You know. What. In practical terms. Does it look like. Yeah. I think that would be a useful thing. But. Yeah. On that bombshell mate.

I'll. Leave you to your. Day. Day. Thank you very much. Paul.

It has been a pleasure once again. Always my friend. And. Yeah. We'll see you all. Listeners. See you all. You'll hear us. Know what I'm talking about.

We'll finish this better in the live thing. For a.

Another episode. Of the Throb. Podcast. Cheerio. Bye bye.

We'll be back next week. For another edition. Of the Throb. Podcast. If you want to find out more. You can find me. At. Paul Chapman. UK. Dot com.

And you can find me. Bertie. At. Bertie Cord. Dot com. Dot com. Thanks again. See you next week.

Bye bye. Bye bye. Bye bye. Bye bye. Bye bye. Bye bye. Bye bye. Bye bye. Bye bye. Bye bye.