Metal Steaks and the Most Expensive Hour of Bertie's Life

Welcome to Throb, The Reality of Business podcast. Real business chat from real people without the shiny veneer of gurus anywhere near it.

With your host Bertie Cordingly and Paul Chapman and maybe some guests along the route, we'll talk about our experiences of running business, helping others run a business and sharing real stories based on real experience.

Hello, Paul. Welcome. Welcome to the Throb studio.

I don't need to do Throb jokes now. I think we've probably done those over in series one.

We have, yeah. But anyway, yes, The Reality of Business. This is The Reality of Business podcast.

This is The Reality of Business, exactly.

And that's what we're talking about. So, yeah. Actually, if episode one is anything to go by, yeah, we've worked out there's probably about 4% business.

Yes.

In this podcast. And then 96% chatting shit.

Yes. But that's difficult to put in a title. Throb, 4% reality of business.

But anyway, I hope you, yeah, if you've listened to episode one, you're still here, then welcome back.

Not even our mother's listened to it anymore. We've lost our two listeners. Okay.

We're still going to talk a bit about experience because you were on holiday recently.

I was on holiday.

You went to a place. I went to a very Instagrammable place, which also has just come to London. Is that right? And I hear this is...

Yes. So, yeah. So I went to Mykonos and I went to... So I don't know if you follow Salt Bay at all. Anyone listening? So Salt Bay is the guy. You've probably seen him in memes if you don't know the restaurants and always sprinkling salt on things. And...

It's sold down his forearm, isn't it? That's right. Yeah.

Which I don't really know how it works in this, you know... COVID era. Yeah.

Just licking brown sauce onto your plate.

I mean, yeah. You know, the way people look at you now, if you just, like, cough once.

Yeah.

You know, like, actually pouring a food product down your arm onto something that's then going to be served to you. Because anyway, we're not going to get... We won't get into that. But yeah. Salt Bay. So, yeah, I went to Salt Bay's restaurant. I've followed Salt Bay for, like, a couple of years on social media. And always, always wanted to go to his restaurants. And then happened to be going to Mykonos. And then realised there was a Salt Bay restaurant there. So, yeah, went there. But he's just... Yeah, before... Let's just step back. Because he's just opened in London. He is. So, a couple of weeks ago, at the time of recording the podcast, Salt Bay's restaurant has opened. And it's had... I mean, do we know Salt Bay? So, if you're not...

We should talk about, kind of, what's Salt... This is Salt, as in Salt Bay, B-A-E.

Is that right? As in... I think it's a... Is it a millennial thing? Or Gen Z? Like...

Mate, we are far too old to cover to any of those...

I think we're bays. I don't know. Are we? I don't know. Well, I don't know. Best mates? Is that...

I sat on the dock of all ones. I think... Is that a target reference for you?

Sitting on the dock of the bay. Your dog is looking like... Looking at us like we're stupid. Right, go.

I'll tell you what. Who used to think it was Vic and Bob? Do you remember Vic and Bob? Of course. Yeah, like they used to do... Sitting on the dock of the bay. Watching the ships go in anyway. Do you remember that?

It's a brilliant podcast. I forget what it is. But it's Bob Mortimer telling terrible jokes in Peter Beardsley's accent over sad music. It's an absolute genius. It's absolutely brilliant.

Anyway, so Salt Bay... Salt Bay. It's a really... Ouch. It's a really fancy steak restaurant.

It is, yeah. So Salt Bay... So it's a guy called Nusseret and then Gokosh, I think. I don't know. It's got funny letters in it, so I don't know how to pronounce it. But Nusseret is the guy's name and he's opened a chain of restaurants. I think maybe 2012. We could fact check this. We've got computers in front of us, but where's the fun in that?

We've never had that stockage, really.

Details, details. But anyway, yeah, I think about 2012 he opened it and I think he's a butcher by trade. So I think his story is, you know, he went into being a butcher to provide for his family and then he's opened these restaurants. But he's become super famous, like in an Instagram era, for serving really good quality, yet if not extravagant steaks and, you know, chopping the meat and being a really good butcher and then tipping a ridiculous amount of artery-blocking salt on them. Like, more salt than you would have in a week's worth of food, like tipping on one single steak. But doing it in a very extravagant fashion while saying things like, wow, or enjoy. And the guy has little rounds, sunglasses on, always well-dressed, you know, keeps himself fit, has a bow tie on. So, you know, he's a showman, right? And this is, yeah, this is a salt-bait thing. So, you know, he's been doing this on Instagram for fuck knows how long and he's an absolute superstar. So people are just really trying to get into his restaurants all the time and he's just opened London, so of course it's been filled with the usual celebrities, you know, everyone from David Beckham to Gemma Collins, you know.

So I didn't know, but I do know. So, do you know what, the thing we're missing in this part of the conversation is that the steaks cost like £1,000.

Well, I don't think they are that expensive, but as I found out the hard way, which I will tell you about very shortly, it's not a cheap restaurant. It's not, you know, it's very expensive. But I suppose you're sort of going to expect that. Yeah, it's a very expensive restaurant. Yeah, so the steaks range from, I don't know, like the one that I went to, the cheapest steak was €160. So I don't know what the steak is in the London. I haven't looked at the menu. I'm still recovering from the shock of paying an actual bill over in Mykonos. But yeah, it's a very expensive restaurant. But what he also does is he covers, so you can get all of the normal steaks and burgers, etc. But then you can also get them exactly the same steak, but covered in gold.

So something, so basically you can have your steak with metal on it. Any other part of the world would be a health and safety thing. They'd be like, I've got a shard of steak in my metal, and you get to pay a lot more for it presumably.

A ridiculous amount. So I'm not sure how much a tomahawk is, but I think a gold-plated tomahawk is seven. Maybe the tomahawk starts at £700. I'm not sure what the gold-plated one is. I mean, it's a big steak, to be fair, you know, with the big bone in. Gemma Collins, I think she ate the whole thing herself. Like, I did, like, I mean, it was. I'll call my lawyers. It was a big steak. I mean, you know, she was loving it, though. She was like, oh, salt bay, salt bay, chop my steak, salt bay. I don't think he speaks any English. Like, I've only ever seen him say the words, wow. I think he's just like, yeah, I don't care what she says.

All this is, is someone that gets marketing. All this is, is someone gets how to make an absolute shit ton of money. Because what is brilliant here, he's in this current life, he's doing exactly the same as he used to as a butcher. He's selling meat. Yeah. But he's worked out that there is way more money in experience than there is in product. Exactly. And that's, you know, that is a massive lesson. And people will take the piss out of this and people will laugh at it. Oh, there'll be that, you know, there'll be, you know, there'll be just as many people that will scoff at this as the will that will want to go just to experience it, just to do it, just to say they've been. Interestingly, you mentioned earlier on, I don't think this business would exist. And I actually think the timeline kind of bears out here, kind of how long he's been doing it to now. I don't think this business would exist if it wasn't for Instagram.

Yeah, there's definitely, yeah, how that would have spread without some sort of social media. And that's, yeah, influence, like it's the place to be, right? Like everyone's gone there in London. Yeah. I'm sure there's like, I had the hundreds, I had the cheap steak, right? I think, what was it called? An Istanbul steak. So normally I would have a fillet steak. Canine. A fillet. Or as we were talking about, you know, a Chateaubriand. Oh, very nice. You know, I mean, we've got a Miller and Carter like a mile away from here, right? It is the same. Yeah, but is it? I mean, but you know, it's a chain. I didn't know it was a chain. It's open local to me. I love a Miller and Carter. I genuinely do. Like, it's a really good steak. I have a Chateaubriand there and it's 60 quid. You know, comes with like chips, that onion bread stuff. Maybe you have to pay extra for that. Anyway, it's like, I always thought that was expensive. Like now, I go in there and it's like, fuck it. I loved a lot, mate. Like, it's nothing. Like, I've just had a £600 bill in Mykonos for three people. And I only had one bottle of wine, Paul. Like...

No, which is where the story falls down, because I simply know that can't be the case. Yeah, but it's...

You know, sometimes when you're in a restaurant, like... I mean, my kids call me tight all the time. I don't think I'm that tight. But I was... Like, we were in there for 60 minutes. 60 minutes, £600. It's the most I've ever spent... Like, you know, I'm not like, oh, I spend all the... Like, I wanted to go to the restaurant. I had no fucking idea how much it cost. No idea at all. Like, I thought it was going to be expensive, because I just felt I was being robbed blind in Mykonos all the time. And, yeah, we sat down at this restaurant and ordered three gin and tonics. And that was €90. And that... Like... The alarm bells should have... And it was, like... I joke about it. And, you know, I'm being quite blasé. I was... You know, I generally said, you know, maybe we should... Like, we've been in.

You've seen it. We've been in.

We'll take a couple of photos. Maybe we should go somewhere else. Maybe we should just go somewhere else and have a look. But we stayed. And, you know, then looking through the starter menu is €30 for a rocket... Rocket, Paul. A rocket salad. Like... Seen you coming.

But it was packed. It was packed.

And he wasn't even there. Right. Even though...

So, literally, it was a stranger, just another, that poured salt down his arm onto your food. Yeah, exactly.

He didn't pour it down his arm. And I thought... I thought... I bet he said only he can pour it down his arm. He put the salt on... Yeah. ...in that way. And it was still very extravagant. And the steak was delicious.

And I only had the steak. The girls had a €60 burger each. €60 burger. Like, it was just a fucking burger.

It's absolutely nuts. But it's like... Do you know what? This is the brilliant thing, is that people will pay anything for anything. There's a market in absolutely everything. Yeah. I think it's, you know... And again... Weirdly, I still... You still find business owners particularly, they kind of scoff at this kind of stuff and laugh at it. You think, this guy's making an absolute shit ton of money. And I think, you know, I don't... I don't think this is a sustainable business. In fact, in terms of kind of a long-term thing. Because I think... And I don't know. I'll be really interested. Well, I'll come back and say... In fact, let me ask the question now. Would you go back?

It's a very, very tough question. I mean... It's not a tough question, is it? It's like, would I go back to a restaurant? You get gas. I mean, it was such a lot of money, right?

So, you know, am I glad now? You know, when I talk to people and they're, oh, Salt Bae. He's like, oh yeah, I've been to his restaurant. I've been to his restaurant. You know, I'm glad that I've been.

Did I leave that restaurant and like, oh my God, that food was amazing. I want to rush back. No, I certainly didn't. However, I could not promise that, you know, if I was drunk in London, it's like, ah, should we get Salt Bae? Yeah!

The milky bars are on me! Yeah, make sure I'm there. Yeah.

But, so, no, I'm not rushing back. So, in fact, yeah, context again. Let's put this into context. I went to a restaurant in Nottingham recently, which I returned to yesterday, day before, I don't know. And actually, the food was amazing. So, you know, left that restaurant, like, we will come here again. I did not leave Salt Bae, like, we will come here again. Just because, but because of that, the service was good. Was it amazing? No.

You know, like, it's, I suppose the little things I've noticed since going there is that I get really irritated now going to restaurants.

And it's not covered in gold.

And it's not, it's, I did order anything gold.

It's browns all wrapped in diamonds.

I did not order anything gold.

But I get really irritated now, like, when the wine glass starts, I sound like a right snob now, don't I? But when the wine glass is empty, and it's been empty for a while, and the bucket's, like, the other side of the table, and I've got to physically stand up to get the wine, I'm like, you've just passed that wine. You could have at least poured it, like, little things. Do you?

Yeah, no, I mean, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not like that. But I think it was, just go back. But you, so you probably wouldn't go back unless, kind of pissed, et cetera, et cetera. But you don't regret it.

No, yeah, I don't, I don't regret it. I don't regret it. I've still not paid the credit card bill yet, but I don't.

That's just move house, but it'd be cheaper to move house. But I think this is a really interesting, is where I think, you know, I wonder if these businesses are sustainable, because they probably are. I guess there's three people there. There's those that are never going to go. There's those that will go loads of time because they've got more money than sense, and they want to do it, and they want to be seen, and it's an important part of it. And there are those that want to go to try it. And, you know, I love experiences, and I love that kind of thing. And I think the interesting thing about it, I think the big chunk of people, there'll be people that will go and do it just to say they've done it, just to experience, just to do it. But it's not something they're going to go back to. Yeah. And a lot of people go, oh, you know, it's not really a business. I don't think Salt Bay, or whatever his name is, I don't think he cares. I don't think he needs this to be a sustainable business, because he is going to make a hundred times as much as he would have done for each piece of meat. Yes, his costs have gone up. He's going to make so much money in a short period of time that actually the longevity, it doesn't really matter. You see,

this is where I think it is a long-term business. But I think it's, I think it's a very different model to what you and I are used to, and probably any business that we've worked on. I think it probably is more about those one-time customer, almost like, you know, like if someone goes on a luxury once-in-a-lifetime cruise, or a luxury once-in-a-lifetime holiday, so I don't know. I think it's probably more in that ballpark. So I think it's almost, and I think there will be people that will go again, but not go again for the same reason that when I went to that restaurant, actually, this food was amazing, let's go back. Okay, it's in London City, right? I mean, think of like banker wankers, pissing money, dripping with money. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, like to take your clients like to Salt Bay, if you're a lawyer, for instance, like, you know, it's like,

it's those, you know,

think about like IPO, stuff like that, investments. If you're, yeah, I suppose it depends on the business, but yeah, I can imagine that, so there will be people that will be there week in, week out, but with different people or if they're trying to impress the latest, you know, girl, boy, whoever they're taking, like, it's that sort of place. Is it the place that you get a loyalty card and then you're like, no. So I think the business model,

free salad on your hundredth visit. Yeah, exactly.

But I think it works because of the exclusivity, right? And I think this is what we said about at the beginning is the experience. People are paying for the experience. Is the experience worth it? Like, how do you even quantify what the experience is? Like, no. And I think, you know, like we joke about the gold plated steak,

but we spoke before

about upselling and things like that, about, you know, what one click upsells can you do? You're making a steak and you say, you know, like, I don't know what a tomahawk, tomahawk steaks aren't cheap. I think if I was to get one from the butchers, it's going to cost me like 90 quid. Like he'd probably charge us 400. Yeah. Let's just say. Okay. Gold plated, double, possibly triple it. Like, but the gold plated, all it is, it's gold leaf, it's edible gold leaf that is used for like cake decorations. And I know because I bought some of this and tried to make my own gold plated steak. Well, let's start on that. But, but look,

I didn't want to pay all that money, but I ordered some gold leaf off Amazon in a little sheet. It's really difficult to do. And, you know, tried to do like, see what it would look like the gold plated steak. But, yeah, like, you know, so he's taken that and it's like, okay, how can we make, so we've created this amazing experience. How can we make more money from it? Let's gold plate it. Yeah. You know, they'll test, will people buy it? And fuck me, they do. They do. Yeah. Because I bet, I'm just going to say, I'm just going to jump in on my own conversation, not let you talk. Like, he, like, he's got like 20, 25 restaurants. This is scaled reasonably well. Yeah. Like all across the world, like Dubai, Mykonos. I think there's one in New York. Now London. So,

Slough. Like, and I could imagine, right, that people are turning up now and like, I want my steak to be sliced by Sol Bay

and they're saying, yeah,

we can do that. He's only doing the gold plate of ones today. Like, I could imagine, like, that's it. So if you're going to that restaurant, if you're like, you know, like, I spent 600 quid in Mykonos, which I'm still trying to get over. Like, I've got two more therapy sessions less. I think I might be done.

Like, if Salt Bay had been there and they'd have said, actually, you know, it's going to cost you 900 quid and we'll gold plate it, but you'll get Salt Bay, would I have done it? I probably would have done. Like, you know, the difference between six and nine and like another 300 pound, and I've got the complete full experience because as you said, I'm probably not going to go back. And I think that's what's happening.

And I think people need to understand the value of experience, not just to people, but the actual monetary value of it. I'll be interesting to know whether the menu changes when he's there. So if you can actually get your steak salted by him, whether it is more expensive, I kind of hope it is. But I think, like, the wider hit, you know, and there'll be loads of people that will scoff and ignore this, but actually what he's doing there is available for literally every single business in every single way. You know, that kind of, and you and I have talked premium products before and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But this is, it's just a really, really smart guy that has realized, there is money in experience, not, not product. And, you know, this goes for everywhere. And I'm, you know, kind of, I like kind of experience and that sort of thing. I was looking at something there, you know, seeking helicopters, Navy seeking helicopters, you'll have seen them. There's somebody's bought one of those on a campsite in Scotland. I'll make up the numbers. It's like, I don't know, 300 quid a night to stay in a seeking helicopter glamping thing. And you see this thing all over the place that there are, you know, there are, and I wonder if it is exacerbated or whatever the positive of that is by the fact we've had kind of COVID and that sort of thing. But these places are booked out. You know, I'm looking at kind of, you know, go and stay in these places because I just want to like the idea of it. You know, we went over the summer, we stayed in a treehouse. It was epic. It was like, if you can imagine what the kids, you know, I'd love to stay in a treehouse. It's amazing. Like, my boys, if they drew a treehouse, that's what it looked like. Really? You walk down and then they, because they didn't know where to go and we kept it as a surprise and to see their faces, and it was just, just epic, epic, epic, epic. And we paid, I don't know, 400 quid a night for it or whatever it was, which is, it's pokey money, you know, but it's,

it's what money? Pokey. What's that mean? You know, Pokey. I've never heard that, ever. Yes, you have. Is that, what, pokey? Yeah, so like, define pokey, well, in this context. In this context,

it means it's strong money. So that's, I've never heard money

referred to as strong either. So you might have chilli, like a chilli,

that's a bit pokey, so it's quite strong, you know, so that's, you know. I've got no idea

what you're talking about.

If I'm on the bike and I, you know, I've checked them how far you've been, it's like, oh, I've been, I've been, 300 miles, oh, that's a feral poke. No, doesn't matter, moving on. Okay, please do. What, I suppose.

Thanks for clarifying that. If there's anything,

if there's anyone still listening.

I don't know either, listeners, just saying. I've got no idea what he's talking about at this point. What you need to get to is the point that,

look at people like Sol Bay, work out how they can do it because people always pay more. It is ludicrous that you will pay way more money for the exactly the same product if it's done differently. And these are learnings for every single industry. Yeah, there are.

And these take like, I mean, yeah, I mean, we spoke about, you know, the negative and whatever. And I suppose you could listen to this and like, oh yeah, you know, why would you have us pay that much for a meal is ridiculous. And I get, I get that entirely. And even talking about, you know, spending that much money on a meal, which is probably the most expensive meal I've paid for. Yeah. Out of my own money. You know, like when I've had like corporate cards and things, like, you know, I've proper gone to town.

So, yeah, people, again, it's signish. I, ages ago, I went to a,

I went to a stag doing the Lanesboro in London. I don't know where that is. The Lanesboro, I think it's on, just off Marble Arch, I think. Anyway, really, really nice hotel. Very good friend of mine. Lots of army mates. And it was, yeah, mates, it was nuts. Private dining in this incredible hotel. I had a similar thing. I went to a wedding there a couple of years later, a couple of years later. And I just happened to be the first one at the bar. Oh no. Yeah. Never,

ever by the first round. three gin and tonics, three pints.

I'm in for like 90, hundred quid. I'm like, are you fucking kidding? And you can't just go, no, because you need to laser it. Anyway, so we went to this, um, went to this stag do. And I'll make it was, it was epic. It was absolutely, it was evening, private dining, just, just wine. So much wine. So, so much. I ran probably everywhere. It was really, really nice, good red. And yeah, kind of things are a bit broken and they're staining. And yeah, you know, army boys alike. It was quite the end. I didn't really kind of think anything of it. And yeah, just an epic, epic knife, all sorts of reasons. And about four weeks later,

for the purpose of the tape, Paul is smirking. Like there's a lot more to this story. There is,

there is nothing more to this story. There was definite,

there was definite rays of the, uh, right side of the mouth during that. Anyway. Is that a good side? Yes. And, um,

I remember getting this email and it from, uh, from the best man going, right, gentlemen, it's, it's time to pay up. Uh, I've spoken to the ladies where I've negotiated, like start a strong start. Uh, and he said, before I tell you the final figure, please remember that we have an X of nine. I'm thinking, boss, this is, this is under quid. And it, you know, kind of a few years ago, I don't have a hundred quid. I literally don't have a hundred quid. And the final bill was, uh, about 600 quid each. Yeah. And, and we had, we just drank a lot of wine and we'd spilled a lot of wine and, um, but it was that thing, but you know, it was, even though I didn't have that money, I guess, mom, dad, can you help me out? Um, I still, I didn't begrudge it. Even though kind of money was really tight. I didn't begrudge it. Cause it was that experience. And I think this is what this guy gets is that not everyone, but there are more than enough people that will pay for experience. Yeah. You know, you know what, and what you do, whether you're selling kind of photocopiers or stakes, people, you know, how you deliver it. That is the only differentiator, you know, they're not doing, he's not doing anything different than everyone else, except for the fact he break it down. He wears glasses and he pours salt down his thing and he covers his stake in metal. Yeah. There is, there is, there is literally kind of nothing different than, than everyone else. But yeah, he's charging three, four times as much everyone else. And everyone else would look at that and go, but they could be doing it too. Yeah. And, and they could.

And I think this is, I think this is a really important, I think we can very easily summarize. And, you know, as we comically said, or you comically said, then, you know, he's like, it's foreign salt and they're covering in metal. And what was the other point? I don't know. Wearing glasses. Wearing glasses. He has built this business like over a period of time. And I'm not trying to justify my ridiculous amount spent in the restaurant here, but like, you know, think about like, to like, he's a bit geeky looking, right? You know, like not being disrespectful. Like I follow him on Instagram. Not being disrespectful.

You can't say not being disrespectful. You know, that either something disrespectful has just been said, or is about to be said. It's like, it's someone who says, I'll be honest with you. I mean, this is a lie. Exactly.

Or you can say anything you like about anyone. If you follow it, Mike, bless them. That's right. Yeah. Yeah. It's like, yeah,

I've got lots of older neighbors and you always know when it's like, I'm not being racist. You know, exactly what's coming. You know, exactly. You know what's coming down the line. You know what's coming. Anyway. So without being disrespectful, which I am being a little bit disrespectful, like, you know, like without being judgmental, then I'll fire. I'm just going to say what I'm going to say.

Like it's,

it's quite a geeky looking character as in, it's very unique. So he like, okay, let's, he runs around. So he does his exercise, which he posts in sunglasses. So he's at the gym and he's, he never takes, so that's part of his character persona, whatever. So he'll, he'll film videos of him.

We're, you know, like pulling himself on like chains, not like in, in the park, like, you know, doing pull-ups, et cetera, like wearing his sunglasses with his top off, always flexing his leg muscles, you know, and then he'll like caption. So, you know, he's on his feet, however many hours a day. And actually like, to be fair to the guy, you know, you see, like I'll see him on Instagram at six in the morning and he's staying in the restaurant at two a night and he claims he just has four hours sleep. And they post really strict meat field diet, you know, he's really lean.

So, you know, people are lapping that up now. I don't generally read the comments and stuff on there, but I could imagine that at the beginning, like someone do like, think back to school or someone in your workplace,

right?

If you saw one person doing that, there'd be a freak. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? Like, so like he's really had to push through that and completely own that persona.

Yeah.

To be able to get through where he is today. So yeah, people are like, or, you know, I can't believe you spend that much money in a restaurant or he charges that much for a steak. He's, he is like, he must've gone through a lot of hot, like a lot of abuse, a lot of whatever to get to that point. And he's, it's not just one restaurant we're talking about. He's got like 20, 25 all over the world. People are queuing up. Like that's a fucking achievement.

Yeah.

So getting back to your question earlier, like, do I, like, yeah, I don't regret going. Would I go again?

It depends. But yeah, I'm glad that I've been there. I'm glad now that when people are, oh, have you heard about this new restaurant in London? Salt Lake. Oh yeah, I went to that in Mykonos before it hit the newspapers here. Like, you know, I was ahead of the trend. I paid 600 quid, not grand. I can't bargain. It's, it make it,

it's just experience. It's so important. And this is a great thing on the business model. There'll be people that go and go week in, week out because that's their circle. And that's the same as, same as the Lanesboro, it's same as kind of any other, you know, restaurant in London that you want to talk about that, you know, 80% of the country is going to think it's ludicrously expensive.

If you're a billionaire, that's just where you go.

It's like the rest of us going to the pub, whatever it is. So there'll always be those people, but exactly what he's done. He's, you know, he's, he's, he's come down a level because lots of places won't go down a level. Can't capture that. Actually, he's been able to go down a level, or whatever the right phrases, and has got a load of people that will go purely for the experience. Yeah. Whether that's a sale or not, he doesn't care because he's going to make all the money he needs. He's going to have everything he needs out of this thing. And I think, you know, what he's done is he has, and again, people need it. That restaurant cannot be compared apples and apples to anything else. There is no conversation. If you want a food experience, you go there, you don't go to Miller and Carter. There's nothing wrong with Miller. You just don't. And I think this is the thing people in every single industry, people need to do this. And I think you're dead right. It takes time. You know, I'm certain for the bulk of his, well, I don't know what he's been around, let's say 10 years. Let's say for six years of those, it was just a slog with everyone thinking him a freak and no one doing it and kind of mocking and da, da, da, da, da. but he's got, well, oh, I know, and we all know this. I know what really makes lots of money. Yeah. And if you've got, you know, what, you know, give me something bland that makes loads of money. There just isn't that thing. You know what I mean? I've got big brands, but it's not really talking about, you know, it isn't bland. And everyone, you know, even down to his glasses, there's a point to that. Even down to the fact that, you know, he is super lean on what he says is a meat diet, which may or may not be true. You know, we're, you know, this may not be true, but I'm thinking, well, okay, we're a very, very plant-based world now. There's all this kind of meat shame and all that sort of stuff. And he is out there kind of going, look, this is my body from meat. And it just ticks off that extra thing. And, you know, I think, you know, anybody that can do anything, and we've wrote my this before, you know, we've kind of, we do kind of math wise and that sort of thing. And, you know, we've looked at different concepts of taking people to castles and private jets and that kind of thing. And, you know, there is no, I've said it like 30 times. There's no value. There's no real huge profit in a product. The profit comes from how that's delivered. And that's, you know, in every industry, that's where the money is. Yeah. That is absolutely where the money is. And I think, you know, I, you know, I need to follow this guy. I didn't, I didn't, I mean, I knew all of it. I didn't really know of it until he, kind of said, I need to kind of kind of have a look and watch it. It fascinates me, but you've got, you've got to pull this out into, into everything else. You know, it's like, you know, you compare, I can't think of it. You compare, um, I don't know. We've got a lovely, where I live, we've got, we're a three pub village. We've only got four houses, but a three pub village. We've got a drinker's pub. We've got a foodie pub and we've got a really nice fine dining pub restaurant things, kind of Michelin kind of book and all that kind of stuff. And I just love going there because the food is fantastic. Obviously, you know, that, you know, it's good wine, you know, it's all there, but it's the experience. It's being there chatting to the, you know, the sommelier and all that kind of stuff. That's what sells. And that's what people are paying for. You know, you, all of us have to get away from the fact that we're paying for coaching, steak, drain pipe, whatever it is. It's the other stuff. You have to have that, but it's the other stuff that makes money. Exactly. It's what you, you know, it's what you get out of it. You know, so when I,

when I think about, uh, if I was to think about that meal, um, you know, as a return on investment, you know, like, I suppose in like a life experience type of way, like how many times, you know, how many conversation starts, conversation starters has this been, you know, between people, how many funny stories, how many times have I made people laugh with it? Now we're talking about it on a podcast. Yeah. Like, you know, like, you know, the, it's something that stayed with me. Whereas there's been other restaurants that I've booked and gone into and like, I've been here before. Like I completely forgot about it. You know, like, you know, that's it. So all the,

all the marketing is done with this, isn't it? He doesn't have to do anything now because of Instagram. And you know, you do not go to a 600 pound meal and not tell someone about it. Oh no, exactly. Yeah. No, it hasn't,

but he's still there showing up every day. Yeah. Like, you know, like when I know you don't follow him, right. But like, yeah, he's probably post like three or four times a day, you know, like these stories. So it's like working out. Then he's at, he's at that restaurant now. In London, like by 10 o'clock. And he's there all day. Leaves it to in the morning. Then there's the, you know, the four hour dead period, which is probably when he's sleeping or in an oxygen chamber. So I don't know. It was superhuman, but, uh,

genic chamber. Yeah. It's interesting. Cause I was like, when I went,

I went in to buy, uh, some steaks yesterday that I did golf. He'd say it was just, I was dead.

It makes me so cross for the purpose of the tape. Uh,

Paul is shaking his head in disgust. But look, this it's again, experience, right? I thought I'm going to try. I'm going to try it. So yeah, bought some gold leaf sheets. Very difficult to put on, uh, went into my local butcher. He was a lovely guy. I was talking to him and I, I sort of said about, um, I wasn't talking about fat, cause the other thing that he does with burgers, he injects them with cheese. So like, so get like a big, like, and like, so massive, big juicy burger. Yeah. And then injects it with cheese and then cuts it.

Like dairy or something. I don't know,

but my mouth's more watering at the thought of it. Like just amazing. Like to see, like I just want to eat it right now. Anyway. So I was asking the butcher, like the best way to do it. And we were talking about it. And as soon as I was saying about injecting a burger with cheese, it was like salt bay. It's like, yeah, salt bay. And he was like, have you ever been? And I, you know, gave him the 600 pound story, obviously. See, yeah. More money's worth there, more life experience. But then he was saying, he was like, Oh, my mate sent it to me like years ago. Cause he's a butcher. So of course, anyone looking in the butchers industry. So he said, he's been following for like four or five years. And interesting. He was at there like, you know, like watch this guy's a bit of a dick geeky stage and seeing how it's progressed. And he's like, fuck me. Why didn't I do that? I suppose we missed those things. Cause like, if you were to say, if I, if you were to go into any butcher, even now, well, let's just say five, 10 years ago and say, right. I said, I've got an idea for you. Stop serving the customer. Like I know everyone's going to Tesco and everything like stop serving the old, you know, biddies that are coming in and everything. And you know, your existing customer base. I always take your phone or probably even cameras on phones with shit. Then take a camera. Yeah. Take a camcorder, put the tape in. And I want you to film you cutting meat, like cooking it and then sprinkling salt on it and then cooking it rare. And like, you know, cause that's, and then, you know, junior X, like they'd look at you like you're a fucking idiot, like absolute space case. If you were to say, if you did this and consistently do it for a few years and now you could have a multi million empire, like fly on private jets to all of your restaurants, every, everywhere you turn up, people are there. Like you're, it's a fucking celebrity. And it's,

and what's really interesting about this is that, you know, if it was just really good steak. Yeah. This, the whole thing doesn't exist. Exactly. It has to have the ridiculous salt dripping.

Yeah.

It has to have the price tag. Cause no one's going to talk about what was that girl you've been, Gemma. Gemma Collins. Cause you showed me downstairs that she's on there going, Oh my God, I can't believe I spend 1400 quid on this. Exactly.

But she did that while she's in there though, she's like, Oh my God, it's amazing. Then the next day on her Instagram, she's like,

Oh my fucking God. But like, but there's still, she,

no piece of content. No from there. Two bits of content. But it's, you know, people aren't. Yeah.

People forget like the value of high prices as a marketing tool. Cause people will talk about it. And then you want to know why it's so much. And then you start to look at it and then he kind of gets into consciousness and kind of all this kind of stuff. And I think, you know, there's, there's just such value here. And I think, you know, do I think the meat there is any better than any number of restaurants? Well, no, it's not. You know, I mean,

actually I'm just going to, I'm just going to like, I think it's all like Wagyu beef, you know, like I think it is really high quality. You know, where the like massage and wank off the cows. I can get Wagyu beef ever. Like, you know, like the cows, the cows.

I don't think you can wank a cow. I don't know. The cows have, well, I don't know. Maybe just like,

just tweak the rudders. Maybe they have a little udder massage. I don't know. Anyway, you're like, you know, they are massaged. Whether they touch the udders. Wagyu beef. Yeah. But yeah,

I can get Wagyu beef anywhere.

Like these cows are treated in a very special way.

I can get that anywhere. And no one is talking. What's interesting here is that people used to talk about those restaurants. And this is quite interesting because as soon as you start to set your stall out on experience, it will be really easy for someone else to now do the $2,000 steak. That's got platinum on or the next thing or the next thing. And this is where again, you look at a lot of these high end experiential businesses. If they're not moving, they aren't sustainable because eventually it becomes a norm. You know, people are basically there. No one is there for high quality food because they can get that anywhere. They are there to have the experience and probably more so to share that experience. But yeah, tell others about it. So actually that experience, it has to develop. It has to get better because if it doesn't, it just becomes the norm. And yeah, there'll still be plenty of people that haven't done it and they'll want to go and do it, but it has to go. This is like the downside of experience or your downside of, of, of, um, kind of black swan experience. Do you ever remember about black swan experience? No. So it got slightly weird until they discovered Australia. They knew for a fact that swans were white because every swan that anyone had ever seen in the, you know, kind of, yeah, probably one is kind of colonial. They knew swans were right. Right. Went to Australia. They found a black swan. And at that point then that you have to happen, you know, the concept is there available that there is a blue swan. Okay. Yeah. So it's kind of, this is kind of this black swan experience. It is, this is like brand new out of that, but now it's out the box. It's dead easy for it to become dull and done. Actually, well, I've done that now. I've now done the thousand pound steak. I've now, and if they as a unit don't create that experience, albeit over more time than he needs, eventually that experience is no longer experience. It's just normality. You kind of said to yourself, I bet, you know, when you, when you were young, you know, kind of three, four, 45 years ago, whatever, I bet actually it never occurred to you a to go to a, restaurant, but never occurred to you that you'd be annoyed by having to pour your own wine. Yeah, exactly. And again, you know,

you saying those words out loud makes me sound really stoppage. I mean, tip it,

literally tip of the iceberg listener. But it's, it's just what it's, yeah,

it's one of those things that once you've had it and then you start to anyway, you know, like,

but this is what's going to happen with Salbe. Hey, eventually you get to a point, if you're not delivering that experience, someone else, particularly because we've got this Instagrammable world, someone else will come in with the next thing with the, you know, and it is, you know, it's like, um, we've talked about thousands of times, but Dollar Shave Club, Dollar Shave Club, that, you know, that, that brilliant video that launched it, the concept was not new. The concept was, you know, rasoir like six years before, whatever it was, but they didn't do it well enough. It didn't kind of capture it. And it'll be the same with that because you've got to, if you are going to set yourself not on like good day to day experience, you know, like I don't have a John Lewis or whatever it is, right? It's a nice, pleasant experience thing to do. If you're going to set it out on that kind of black swan experience,

I think you have to change it. Kind of what comes next? How do it, you know, because someone else can grab that concept, do something brand new with it. I don't know what that kind of thing is, but you've got to have it. Yeah. It comes next.

I think incrementally better probably isn't good enough. And I think it's interesting when you was talking, when you mentioned earlier about, yeah, I can get Wagyu beef anywhere. And actually, you can. I remember the first time I saw Wagyu beef on a menu when I was in a beef there in a place called STK, which was a really, that's a good high end steak restaurant. Okay. I can't remember what the prices were, certainly not Salt Bay prices, but I don't know, maybe it was a 20 quid burger. And then there was like a 45 quid burger for Wagyu beef. And I turned my nose up, but literally I'm not paying that. And this is it listeners, just to put this back into context, use that word again, but this is not a normal thing that I would do. So, you know, this is quite extreme, you know, to spend that, that sort of money in a restaurant. It just doesn't, doesn't sit well with me. Yeah. I think it's extravagant. And, you know, it's like, I'm just thinking, well, I could have like a hundred spoons breakfast for that. You know, that's, that's, that's a hundred days out. Having breakfast cooked for me every day, you know, like for the, for the same,

but it's, so yeah. I like experience. I do. Yeah.

So I love an experience. So yeah, this is, but yeah, we, we do. But anyway, I suppose I was thinking about, you know, the, the Wagyu beef thing. And I think what you started to say earlier, in fact, you probably did say, and I'm maybe even just repeating exactly what you said is that. Claim it for your own. Yeah. What? Like, so, you know, Wagyu beef, everyone then knows it and they know that it's really good quality, et cetera. So where do you then take it? And that's what he's done, isn't it? So actually like the fact that it's Wagyu beef, when I sort of said it to you, it's like, well, it doesn't matter. You can get anywhere now. It's almost like it's been there, done. No, one's that bothered.

What do you do now? Actually,

you get really theatrical with it, sprinkle some fucking salt on it and then place it in gold, you know, and that's, and that's how you keep creating that experience.

It's like everything is like Tesla. Tesla have got the,

I love Tesla. Yeah. They've got the, what's it?

The stupidity button, you know, they've got the, the fart noises. They've made it so much more than the thing that it is. And I think, you know, this is, and it is hugely valuable. It's hugely profitable. It can, it can, it doesn't always, it can put your marketing on automatic because it's happening and people are wanting to do it. They're wanting to talk about the fact they're doing it as much as they want to do it. I would, even as the kind of miserable old git I am, I would suggest that quite a lot of people that are more, are happier with the telling people about it than they are the actual doing of it. They want to be seen in these places. But I think, you know, it is, it isn't that what's next, what's happened. Cause like I said, you know, Wangu Beef ages, you know, cause it was, it was kind of, I don't know, when we were little, you know, probably the, the Wagyu thing was Aberdeen Angus. You're going to buy a steak for 600 quid. That is, you know, complete with the sweat of the guy that's done it. And he's going to be covered in metal. That's not a thing. It is now a thing. And I'm, this is more fascinating. I love what, what, what, I mean, I don't know what, what, what do you think is next? Cause something has to happen. Cause otherwise it, it does stop being an experience, but yeah,

I don't know. Yeah. I mean, where, where do you like, yeah, I suppose that is, you know, if we were like his inner team, like what do we do next? Like, do you need to do something else? Or do you actually, do you recognize that that model does scale, but in the way that he's done it. So, you know, like I saw again, cause I follow him on Instagram, like, you know, I saw him like get the private jet to London, sat there smoking a cigar, then in quarantine for five days. You know, I saw that thing. So it's probably, in fact, Ibiza is opening Ibiza. So I could imagine he'll probably stay in London till next year and, and jet straight off to Ibiza and do exactly the same thing again. And then, you know, you'll have the likes of, you know, Wayne Lineker and then all the football stars and everything. Everyone goes to Ibiza cause they'll be going there at the same time. Maybe you don't have to do anything different. You can scale, you know, like outwards rather than scaling upwards.

But surely you do eventually. Oh yeah, you will eventually. And I think, but there's enough, there's enough people to do it for him to make more money than he needs. And then what he'll probably do is whatever else is, he'll sell it. And someone else can go on, have it, look how much money they've been making. Actually, it's, so we, were you disappointed? It wasn't him sprinkling your soul. No, you see,

I knew he wasn't going to be there because I'd followed him on Instagram. And like, I want, like before we went to McInnes, I was like, you know, I really want to go to the Salbe restaurant. Before I went to McInnes, I didn't realize how expensive McInnes was in general.

Yeah.

So it was the most expensive place that I've been to. So day one sat down, um, you know, you know, little place by the sea. And it was, what was it? Like I, what I was then was a chicken savlacki. I love a chicken savlacki. And it was 20 euros. I was like, that's expensive.

Little did you know that's not even a salad. Yeah, no, that's it. That's, you know, that's, that's, that's a joke. And it was, we'll just get a stat. We'll get some chips, six euros. What? Like,

I'm not paying six euros for a plate of chips. Like, you know, this is from Yorkshire. So, you know, again, maybe I should have started with this story and built up to how we then got to Salt Bay, but you get used to it, don't you? And they got to a point genuinely, like, you know, there was three of us there. We're having a great time. And, um, I was complaining every single place that I went to, uh, for the first like few restaurants, bars, the point where I was annoying myself. I actually said it out loud. I was like, do you know what? I'm just going to accept it. Like we're here. Yeah. We're only here for five days. I'll just fucking worry about it later. And, you know, that's essentially it. And then, you know, the credit card bill came at the end and, uh, cried for, for, for a few days, you know, like, sold one of the kids' kidneys. And you weren't, I bet you had,

I bet you had chips at Salt Bay.

I did not have chips at Salt Bay. Didn't you? Oh, actually, did we have chips at Salt Bay? Well, do you know what? It doesn't matter. Yeah, we did. I did. Probably 30 quid or something. Yeah, and that's it. And, you know,

you're not any more cross about that. And that, you know, and this is the fact that people are happy, everybody is happy to pay a lot more if they see value in it.

Yeah.

And there is no value in your mind in, you know, kind of six euro chips in a, you know, crappy polystyrene thing by the side of a, um, you know, kind of a shit pool or whatever.

There were nice chips. Yeah. Okay.

But there's no, this is where people can build a value. And this is like, you know, probably, you know, where, where we kind of draw in and the lesson on this is about that as business owners, we have to realize that, as I've said a thousand times, the money, the money, the real money is not in the product. It's in how that product is delivered. And it doesn't matter what it is. It doesn't matter whether it's kind of food, drink, cats, anything that you can think of. It's out, you know, and there'll be lots of people that won't pay, but there are loads and loads of people that will pay more.

Yeah.

And I think particularly more so now because of what's gone on last couple of years, but also because we are seeing it, you know, there'll be some smart person that will do a, a cheaper, but different version of the salt bay concept. Not the same thing, but actually I will deliver my, you know, kind of fish in this way. You know, it, you know, you think back to, you know, off of the eighties, you went into restaurants and you chose your lobster. You had a fish tank and you chose.

I don't even think you can do that anymore. Well, no, yeah. I mean, it's,

it's probably kind of kind of cruelty or whatever. It's kind of very reasonable, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. But that was the thing. Yeah. And actually, and it's, it's no different, you know, right back to this conversation, this guy sells lobsters. He can either do it off his boat or he can take it to the shop where it's clean. So that costs the same product costs a bit more. You've paid a bit more, or you can then turn that lobster into something delicious. And that costs a bit more, or you can turn that lobster into something delicious, delivered by a drone to your table. It's there. Yeah. We were talking about, um, yeah, kind of bars in Nottingham. Um, and there are really interesting bars these days that were, when we were kind of kids, not the year of the bars, kids, uh, wait till you're like 18 or whatever. Yeah. Have we covered that? Cool. But you can go, you know, there's that bar where it's literally, and it completely empty thing. There's a desk and a door. So unless you know there's a bar there, there, but actually you go in, you go through the back door in, she gets stuck. For heaven's sake, man. Was it her birthday?

God's sake, man. So you go in, you go through the side door, like this non-discretion, and then there's this incredible bar at the back. Yeah. It's brilliant, but once you've done it, it's not the one that's cool.

And you'll still take people back. You have to wait till the next birthday.

I'm not with the other joke.

We say it's an amazing experience, but it's a bit messy, isn't it?

stop it, man.

Oh my God.

All right. Let's leave it there. So lessons from today. I don't know if there are any,

but I just want to finish off just before.

We nearly got through our whole one. We nearly did. We nearly did. Just, I think, you know,

with any of these experiences, you know, it's, you could very easily say, you know, well, he's just ripping people off, et cetera. And I think what we've got to bear in mind is whoever's going there has a choice. Yeah. Like, you know, like he is just like it or loathe it fucking shit hot at marketing. And I, you know, I believe some of it's probably happened by extent. And then, you know, he's done something that people have loved. And he's carried on. And his marketing team is behind him. You know, it looks like it's just him, but of course, you know, he'll be surrounded by an absolute phenomenal team that have built this brand, which is him essentially. But you know, his, his restaurants thrive in the, you know, they're still, people are still going to them, even though he's not there.

Um, everyone has a choice in this stuff and he's catering to that market that no one else is catering for. Yeah. And, you know, like you could look at it and say that it's vulgar and I would, and whether you, I'm not saying that that's the business that I would want to do, but equally, I'm not judging him for doing that either because people are paying for it. People are enjoying it. People are coming away from that experience and really loved it. We're talking about it now. The media has had a fucking field day over there. Like, you know, that trip advice has gone crazy. Like, you know, people who've never even been in there, like 11 pound for a red bull. Someone was complaining about. And it's like, well,

you can't complain because it's not a hit, not a secret. Yeah. Everybody knows what it is. And I, I don't think, and I'm not,

you're not paying for the red bull. You know, you're not down at the, the local news agent, you know, with your minimum card fee. You've got to pay fiver there. Yeah. So at least get eight of them. It's,

and I know you're not saying it is, but I'm, you know, kind of solely agree with it. It's not vulgar. It's not anything like that. It is. Some people want to buy experience. Yeah. Loads of people don't. Fine. But some people do. And actually it's a guy that is catering for those people. Exactly. And no one, you know, except for yourself, but you knew it was going to be really expensive.

Maybe not that expensive.

And I would imagine there's a little bit of kind of comedy that you are kind of trying to insert into this, but no one goes there. And you can't get in there by accident. You know, you know what you're getting into. Yeah. And some people want that. And, and you know, it is a great lesson to us all that if you want to earn loads more, think of a different way to do the thing that you're doing, because there will always the same way that, you know, on, on your wrist, there'll be a thousand pound watch on my wrist. There'll be a 20 pound watch or whatever. Slightly more. Um, that's fine. But some people, some people will always pay more,

particularly if you do whatever it is you do in a different way, in a way they can't get each anywhere else. And if you can then be smart enough to do that in a way that they can't get anywhere else. And they want to tell people that how, look at how great we are. We're getting this thing. You can't, Oh, your marketing takes care of itself. And I think it's a really small lesson. You know, it's, it's, um, I'm keen to go and have a look myself. I'll just be cross. I will be grumpy. Excellent. Well, maybe we'll have a,

maybe we'll have a milestone. Maybe we'll do a, uh, when we get to X number of listeners, maybe we'll go to Salt Bay restaurant, restaurant, restaurant. You can treat me to Salt Bay when we hit, um,

45 billion.

When we hit 20 listeners. Okay. Safe enough.

Well, uh, we'll, we'll, we'll go to Salt Bay and maybe, maybe we'll take, maybe we'll take some fans. Some, yeah. So your mum, my mum, the four of us will be all right. Well, I think it's good. Certainly enough. Yes. Fantastic. Thanks again, Paul. I enjoyed that mate. Thank you for listening listeners. It's been a pleasure having you on this journey today. And, uh, if you've been to Salt Bay, if you've been to any other good, bad, indifferent restaurants, anything, uh, any experiences that you want to comment out, get in touch. And these are all things that we can talk about in future podcasts. Yeah. Work it,

work out what it is that you spend the most on. I'd love to hear it. Cause everyone spends everything. Everyone kind of values different things. And I'm always interested as to what, you know, actually what, what is the thing that tips you over the edge? Yeah. Anyway, look, enjoy that mate.

We will love you and leave you. See you next time. Goodbye. Goodbye.

We'll be back next week for another edition of the Throb podcast.

If you want to find out more, you can find me at paulchapmanuk.com.

And you can find me, Bertie, at bertiecord.co.uk. Thanks again. See you next week.

See you next week. See you next week.