Bikes, Bushes and Golf Sticks

Welcome to Throb, The Reality of Business podcast. Real business chat from real people without the shiny veneer of gurus anywhere near it.

With your host Bertie Cordingly and Paul Chapman and maybe some guests along the route, we'll talk about our experiences of running business, helping others run a business and sharing real stories based on real experience.

Hello Paul. Hello. Hello. Welcome back. Welcome back. Hello mate. Bertie Cordingly.

Yeah, I don't feel this should be the new jingle. No, I don't think so. How are you mate? I'm very well. All the better for being back in the studio. Yes. Back in the studio recording season two of Throb. Throb.

Tremendous mate. Yeah, it's good. I've missed it. I've had a great summer. Loads of good stuff going on, but I do. It's a good thing this. I enjoy it. So speaking of which then, tell me what have you been up to? What's happened? What's been going on? What have we missed in the world over the last X many months that we've not been doing this?

Well, a lot's happened, hasn't it? I mean, I've taken a lot of time off. I've been on some holidays, travelled the world a little bit, you know, best you can, you know, in a, yeah, depending on what time you're listening to this listeners. You know, we are still coming out of a pandemic, but yeah, a little, little trip to Spain. I know it's a cheeky trip to Spain, but I know I'm offended. That would just make me very cross. Yeah, about that. So yeah. So we won't get into this debate now. But anyway, I had a little trip to Spain and then went to Mykonos as well. So yeah, a couple of, a couple of little holidays, which has been lovely because you just forget, don't you, how nice it is to travel. I think like it's just been a shit couple of years, like lockdown and everything and thinking that we're just going to die by just talking to people.

It is weird, isn't it? You look at everything we know now and how like the world, we still have it, but everyone's just out of the world kind of licking and stroking and whatever. It's just interesting to know how, I think it's just kind of the same for everything, how thought processes move on. We're going to, where we are now, yes, of course we've got the vaccine, et cetera, et cetera. But I just find it fascinating that actually we've, we knew so little, it was just madness.

And now it's, it sort of moves on really, but yeah, I think we could probably talk about this all day, couldn't we? But yeah, we probably, because no one cares.

I think, I wonder if Corona has been done to death. I really do.

But yeah, you know, we threw it like, you know, I'm alive, you're alive. Like, so, you know, worse, worse things, I mean, yeah, it's been, it's been shit, but we've, we've got through it. We seem to be a lot more knowledgeable about the situation now. So, yeah, so that's, that's where we are. So I don't even know what month we're in now, but here we are for season, season two.

Season two, season two. So what have you seen there, mate? We were chatting the other day and you'd kind of brought some thing up. I thought actually it'd be really in this time, because I think you're a bit like me in this. You know, I spend a lot of time just looking at stuff and seeing stuff, seeing stuff. And I, I come quite kind of geeky and nosy at it. But like, so what, what have you seen in the business world that we ought to perhaps talk about? Yeah.

Yeah.

I think let's just, let's just sort of step back on that. I think, I think me and you were very similar in that. Like I noticed now everything like in small interactions, large interactions, the way that companies deal with things, communications, that sort of stuff. So I think that's really what I'd like to talk about as in, because I noticed now a lot of things that stop me buying or not necessarily me personally, but I just think, yeah, you're pushing customers away there. Yeah. And I think, yeah, there's just, there's, there's just been a few things like that, that I get on my little soapbox about sometimes. So I think we should just, I think we should just debate them.

Go on, give us a rant. Go on. Give us a rant.

Well, I mean, I was in town the other day. I mean, town is Nottingham for me. So anyway, people could probably put the two and two together and figure out what I'm talking about. But I won't name names probably because I can't even remember what it was. But I was walking through a shopping centre in Nottingham.

Nice.

There's only one, so that'd be dead easy to figure out. And in there, there was a new, we're like top level spies, aren't we? Yeah. People up there, Google it, right? Yeah. If it nods again, what's the shopping centre? Victoria Centre. There you go. I've saved you. I've saved you the time, effort and energy. Victoria Centre. Anyway, so I was in there. And anyway, I walked past a bike shop. It was a new bike shop. And I'd heard about, well, I'd seen this bike shop actually. Now, let's for context, I'm not a biker. You are. This is true. So, you know, the first person I thought of when I saw this bike shop was, oh, I wonder if Paul knows about that. Now, I've heard about this bike shop before. Now, looking, walking up to it, this shop looked pretty impressive. So normal bike shops, they all look the same, like Halford's-y and everything's just hanging about and chains and whatnot. And I don't understand it. This one, as I was walking towards the shop, looks very different. Like the bikes were really nicely on the wall. It looks very Apple-esque. It almost looks like an Apple-type shop. Now, me being an Apple geek and loving all this other stuff, you know, I thought, oh, I'm going to pop in there. And it was on my right. And naturally, I'm just going to sort of veer towards there. But I didn't. And I didn't go there because this bike shop had a doorman.

Okay.

It sure wasn't just someone standing near the shop.

Well, no, it wasn't. I mean, it wasn't, you know, there with his fluorescent thing on his arm or anything like that, you know. But it was a very, a very big guy, intimidating looking, stood at the door, not like a sort of, didn't look like he was going to greet anyone in any way, just sort of stood looking very serious, almost like he was there for a purpose. Now, maybe I'm putting two and two together here. Now, I'd heard about this bike shop before. And I think my son had been telling me about it. He's 16. I think he'd been in with his mates and he was telling me about this bike shop and how everything was really expensive, et cetera, et cetera. So in my head, I thought, you know what? They've probably had loads of kids going in there, got really annoyed. And now they're almost like putting people to the front of the door to stop that. Now, I could be wrong. However, I'm all up for like, you know, being met and greeted at the door. But, you know, if you're putting someone there that's looking quite intimidating and not smiling, like, hello, you know, come in. Like, it stopped me going in. Like, it actually stopped me going in. Am I their customer anyway? Would I have bought a bike? Probably not. However, however.

You do like buying expensive things.

I do have a tendency to buy things that I don't need. Thinking that, thinking that this, you know, this may come in handy one day, but never actually does. So, yeah, I mean, I do have a very expensive bike in the garage, which, you know, I bought a fair few years ago. And it still looks brand new because it practically is. So, you know, it's very easy to be sold to. I think that's the thing. I think if you'd have got me in that shop and been talking about bikes, I'm, oh, actually, you know, maybe I should start biking again. I mean, I've got that old bike that, you know, that's obviously rubbish now. Yeah. It's been there. Going rusty. Maybe me and Chappas will go biking one day. Maybe I'll buy this bike.

Maybe you get a tandem. Maybe tandem. I don't know.

I never got in there, Paul. Shotgun front. So, we'll never find out.

It's odd, isn't it?

But, yeah, I think these sorts of things. I mean, look, maybe my assumption was wrong. Maybe he was genuinely a very friendly guy. But the fact that he was there, stood there, and, you know, I'm not an easily intimidated. I just thought, I don't want that. I don't want to have that conversation at that point. I just want to go in and just have a quick nosy. Not like, hello, what are you looking forward to? Like, I think there's a time and a place for that, but not necessarily at the entrance to the store. Like, let me get in and have a look. It's like when you have a website and sometimes you've got to register or sign up, all that other shit. Like, it's like, I just want to have a look round. Like, I think you've always got to be thinking, are we putting obstacles in customers' ways? So, are we stopping people from buying? Are we stopping people from getting excited? And sometimes we solve problems before they happen. Or maybe it's like a sledgehammer to crack a nut scenario. I mean.

Yeah, I think it's really interesting. It's kind of come under that heading of, you know, making it hard for people to buy.

Here we go.

Eight minutes in. Eight minutes in. Welcome to the Double Egenture Hour.

We called it Srob for a reason.

Choc with Willie Jones. Excellent. Highbrow stuff. But people do make it difficult. See what I've done there. But they do make it difficult for people to buy. And I think there's, I mean, there are some places where that needs to be a thing. Well, not doesn't need to be a thing. There are some brands that want it to be so preposterously up their own posterior that actually they just don't want people. And actually that making it difficult to be part of thing. And I get that. And there is that. But actually, that's not a high street thing. That's not. Well, for me, in my head, that isn't a high street thing. I would also suggest, particularly at the moment when there is a new shop there, there is a struggling high street, I would be suggesting that actually footfall is what they want. And if, you know, they must, you would hope, they must know their demographic, who's going into that centre. So actually, even if they are kind of really high end, they must be there for a reason. So they want the people that are coming in to come in. So actually, they should be doing the exact opposite. And, you know, I like a meet and greet. I think I like a meet and greet. You know, it depends just how kind of grumpy I am. I spend a lot of my days these days kind of old and grumpy. So sometimes I'm like, just fuck off. Just leave me alone. I want to come and look. Again, this is as old as time. You know, that kind of you go in to buy a car or whatever it is, and someone comes to talk to you. And, you know, I have, I think, over the years kind of managed to get my eyes that say the whole kind of look back off. But I think you're right. I think there are loads of things that will stop people buying. And I think a lot of people don't ever think about them. And I think, you know, 10 years, 20 years ago, this was fine because you were the only bike shop. If you needed a bike, you could only go to that bike shop. But now there's just a billion different options and a billion different things. I think, you know, you see it all over the place. You know, I think website's a really interesting one. And as soon as you said it, I thought of a really good example, which I now have forgotten because this is, you know, like 30 seconds later. But you do do this. You go onto websites and actually they just make it difficult. They make you jump through hoops and make you do stuff. You know, website's not working, which is, I know it happens, but it's kind of unforgivable now. Like, where was I the other day? There was a site that I was trying to buy something on. And every time I clicked purchase, it just sent me back into the start of the loop. So it's clearly a bug in there. But why is no one picking that up? Yeah, because I've subsequently looked, you know, I'm not paying something 10 times.

Yeah.

But again, back into something you kind of talked about previously, kind of keeping an eye on what's actually happening in the business. And I think, you know, you can't, you can't make it difficult in any way for your customers to buy because they can buy it from anywhere. Yeah.

You know, we're in a very, we're in a society now of instant gratification, right? You know, like we want things, we expect things instantly.

And yeah, you have to, you have to be on top of that. So yeah, I think a retail experience has to be really, really good. Like you can't just get away with the, you know, the old way of doing things. I think, yeah, especially for a website now, like if someone is going into that constant feedback loop, what are you buying, by the way? What are you trying to buy?

I can't remember now, probably.

Nothing interesting, was it? It's me, mate. Probably not.

It's probably something for the buy. Some tweed. Yeah. Some new tweed.

Try to buy some tweed. That would be something.

But you know, like there's loads of good examples of this. So I can, so my youngest goes to football on a Saturday and we take him there and he starts to play. And there is a lad sat there that takes the money and registers them. And they've got a card reader. Brilliant. Yeah. So much, this is so, so sensible. And I'm sure there's an extra X many pence there, but just the ease, parents do not have to think about this. Oh, yeah. You know, and like, again, 20 years ago, 10 years ago, this is like a valid excuse. Oh, it was really costly. It isn't costly. You've got to make it people to buy. And conversely, I'm jumping in because I see you're going to say something, but not that long ago, I was in a pub in the middle of nowhere. And I went to meet a client and this weird sort of standoff thing of, I've ordered something.

Yeah.

And I think a couple of clients, some food, gone to pay. And everyone in the middle of nowhere is like, well, we don't take cards. And I'm thinking this is a joke. I'm like, everyone takes cards. That's like, yeah. And you're in the middle of nowhere. There isn't any cash. No, we don't do it. So we've got this really weird standoff that I want to buy something. He's telling me I can't. And it just, and that's nuts. And I'm never going to go back to that pub again because why the hell would I? Yeah.

And it's, I think sometimes it's a lack of knowledge, right? But generally, I think it's a mindset thing. As in like, you know, cards are expensive. It's on the same theme. So I'm going to jump in with it. Minimum card charges, right? Like, you know, if you go into some, it's like, oh yeah, you need to spend a fiver. Like, it just fucks me off because they just don't get it. Like, we've got a local news agent.

And so I got my son. Now you can get them debit cards, right? I mean, bear in mind, we've just come out of a pandemic. No one's using fucking cash anymore, right? Yeah. It's like, I can't remember. Like, on a night out, I used to go out, draw out 100 quid. That was it. You know, that would be my night out, sorted. First round. Yeah, yeah. Gone. Gone.

You know, back in there, I remember you'd go out on a tenner. Anyway, we digress. But, you know, draw out the cash. You'd just pay cash for everything. And you would just know. So now I can't remember. Like, where was it? I went out for a meal the other day and they didn't have the tip on a card thing. And it was like, it was a really nice restaurant. I thought, I can't tip. Like, I can't remember the last time I actually had cash in my hand. Or, like, I just don't. Like, it's either Apple Pay or, you know, I do carry a couple of cards round. But nothing. I just don't have it. So if you've got a news agent, right, and you're putting minimum card charges in there. Yeah, I get, you know, you might be paying 20p transactions. You might lose money occasionally. But you're losing so much more. So my son, who is 11, has got his debit card now. And he doesn't have cash. So his pocket money goes straight into his debit cards. And, you know, he likes to go and buy sweets and shit that you do as, like, a child. You know, like, well, you know, like, 10p for a Freddo. Whereas now, you know, it's like a fiver. But he can't, he can't do it. So he goes in there and it's like, oh, yeah, I can't get anything from the news agent because you have to spend a fiver. It's like, a news agent is, like, if you're going to put a card facility to make it easier for your customers.

Yeah.

Then why have a minimum charge of a fiver in there? Who spends a fiver in a fucking news agent? Like, what can you possibly buy for five quid? It's like, but, you know, you go in there and buy 112 out-of-date lagers.

Yeah, it's nuts. And again, people just don't think about it.

Might as well not have a card machine. Yeah.

Yeah, just, it's not a thing anymore. This is not a thing because it's easy, it's cheap. But people, and it's with everything, everything that, anything at all that's going to stop people buying is just a really bad thing. And it needs to thought about. Whenever I'm launching something new and kind of whatever it is, I'm kind of sat with clients. It's always like, why won't someone buy this? What's going to stop them? You know, I remember a kind of thing ages ago and I kind of started. And actually, for me to join this thing, I had to go to a website, download and then print a form, fill the form in, get a check. A what? A check. I'm a bit older than you. Checks in the old days, you know, they're about three and a half metres by.

Plug in the back's machine. Make a call on the landline.

I do remember we had, you know, like Pavlov's dog. I'll come back to the story. Like Pavlov's dog, when they ring the bell, the dog salivates kind of thing. In like the old, old, old office, we used to get orders by fax, but they'd be like 30 grand orders. So you'd be like there, you'd be waiting for your, you know, bonus day and you'd hear, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig

dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig

dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig I don't think enough people get mystery shoppers kind of things in their business I do it less now but actually there was a period of kind of business where I would do quite a lot of mystery shopping you know kind of customer UX stuff and I would go through and you know people would effectively pay me to go and be a customer and just see what it was like and just kind of go through and I think actually it's a really valuable thing

I've always wanted to be a mystery how do you get to be a mystery shopper?

I don't know it's just a service I offer to my clients so you know before we fix stuff let's find out what's going on because it's always you know 100% certain the owner, manager, person of that bike shop does not think they are losing customers because Big Dave with his massive beard I don't know if he had a beard or not Big Dave is standing at the center of the shop

yeah

and again we don't know if that's a thing or not and it actually doesn't matter because it's kind of it's sort of symptomatically the wider conversation you know kind of the UX stuff you know particularly like online people like Ross from Stray from we spoke about him before I think just really really good at that you know online UX stuff because and it's a thing now it didn't have to be a thing I don't know four or five years ago but it is a thing now because the technology is so much easier that people will just click away people just go away and I think you know particularly at a time when the you know when the the high street is battling if you've got bricks and mortar you need to find any way to bring people in and make sure as a proactive thing that you are not stopping anyone or you're there's no way that you could be stopping someone

yeah I think you've said before haven't you I think you've used the word think people need to just think a little bit more and I think you know there is a danger of overthinking and trying to solve too many problems but you know just actually just step back and look at what is going on like if you're not getting any people walking into your shop just ask yourself why is it the fact that you know big day big run or whatever is still there intimidating people is it something else is it there's no footfall in there you know what things can you do I think just stepping back and thinking about things is definitely an underrated thing that's missed and you've just got me thinking about loads of points stories whatever that I think are all relevant I mean making it easier for your customers to buy when you grow and when you scale a business then of course you need to adhere to certain processes otherwise the whole thing falls to pieces right like you know you can't just you know ring up Tim Cook at Apple and say oh can you send me an iPhone mate it's like yeah yeah of course you know it's not going to happen is it

but you can do that and you should be able to do that with smaller businesses you should be able to you know be open to all the ways that they want to buy rather than trying to funnel people down the process that you think is best so in that example that you gave that process wasn't created for you it was created to make their admin system easier they want their forms they can file it in a nice pretty pink file or whatever they do with it and do all this other stuff they want to take the check that's their process that's not good for a customer where it's like I had a similar thing like trying to book you know you follow a restaurant right you know restaurants Instagram feed you know it's like you've got all of all of their nice food pictures and it's like yeah fuck me I'm going to go there and you DM them it's like oh no you need to go onto our website and book here okay fair enough right you've not sent me a link right so I'll go and google your fucking restaurant now and try and find it and then you get on there and then there's no booking link and the website's terrible or maybe it's using like a different service like OpenTable again nothing wrong with those aggregators but generally like they don't have the true reflection of the booking and then you by the end of it it's like I'm not doing that anymore you've made me jump through hoops to make it easier for you whereas all of you needed all you needed to do

was just say yeah no problem you know

when do you want to come in

let's sort it

a customer is I'm there telling you there and then that I want to book and actually eventually like one of these places that and I've had this experience loads of times so I can't just you know name and shame or pick on one but there's been times when I've actually turned up to places after they've made me jump through hoops there's no one fucking there but me it's like

you should have like

snatched that booking straight away so if there's only me I'm the stupid one that's actually gone through and jumped through all those hoops to go through your laborious booking process how many customers have you lost by doing that and they're they're the things that I think people need to think about because those simple things that are often overlooked like are you literally closing the doors to your customers are you stopping them from buying I think that's the whole point of this episode isn't it yeah and you know

we've all been into and we've all been into that shop where you're trying to get something and just the person kind of who's helping you is just the least useful least helpful and you know I can think of buying it was a bike I think it was a new a couple of new bikes whatever it was and just this new bikes

just you know

such a bike cycle

not bought the bike for a few months I've got one in the garage Paul brand new it's just a 2016 model

one careless owner but in it just literally you've just rode it home from the shop haven't you

I did ride it over the shop I did ride it over the shop and it's not what else it is but I hung it on the wall

just a load of sad lycra hanging up in your car I'm sure it was anyway it's because I mean it's because I'm just

I'm feeling it's just it's a road so it's a road but I think it's a road bike I mean it's got very thin wheels and

I'm sure you're saying this only to wind me up what is that

and

I live in the country and the roads are quite bumpy so I remember like getting home and thinking oh that was quite like it was I mean it felt nice I'll tell you what I did do is I've got I got the pedals because someone I took advice from someone so I got those special pedals and you have to have special shoes that clip into them so like there's a couple of scratches on this brand new bike because I forget

I forget I mean

so I've clipped my feet in there gone for a ride and then forget and you stop at lights and you can't get your foot off and then just topple over twice I've done that so now it's in it like I just want to get not that I go I've got another bike that gets used more that's a very old bike but I don't have to put the special shoes on I just I just get on the bike and go you know like go to the shops

first time I I think I found it first time I rode it and I live in I put an eye on my nanny's living on the road so I'd go for a bike ride and I'd go kind of pop in to see it I remember knocking on a door and I just forgot what was clipped in and I just fell like weirdly this like the Red Sea this bush basically opened and then shut around me this 80 year old woman comes out to literally like a bike and some lace coming out of a bush she's like oh hello dear are you alright I'm like yeah just hanging out

just hanging out if anyone has ever I mean if you've got those special shoes you'll know what I'm talking about but if not like if you've not done it then borrow someone's shoes and borrow someone's bike I think you need to experience this once I've been cycling with those shoes

for many many many years and I still forget really yeah I got I pulled up to the place the other day and I was just not concentrating like and someone had pulled out so I was going a bit slower and you think like shit shit shit

that's exactly what happened you know

it happens in slow motion

and you're like oh shit I am clipped in but then for that however long it takes for the bike to either fall to the left or to the right depending on which way you're leaning at the time

like you can't get your feet out

and you can't remember and I still don't know it's like is it like Dorothy you have to click three times or something

just twist that it should have fall

detection in there it should know if you're on the it should in fact

what like an airbag comes out of your side do you know what if you're making

this is a good if you're in the bike business I'm going to give you this one right fall detect like accelerometer in those shoes or in the pedals and as it starts to tip just unclip it that's fucking in fact maybe we should edit this out that's genius that's solving a problem right there auto unclipping bike pedals for people that don't cycle

yes

there we go

there is your business idea right there

if you make it a thing then please credit me

and send me a check I fell over outside a proper rough pub once like full lycra and I just put I just just kind of just fell and the abuse the joy on these people's faces to see this overweight twat in lycra like squirming like an angry octopus on the floor with this bike because the bike is then trapped in your legs right I don't know if you ever tried to get up for the bike oh it's ridiculous isn't it but I think any time you

fall over like any there is that like few split seconds and like I mean in your head it's like an hour isn't it and you're just laying there and you're like what the fuck just happened and then there's people just around you like going I fell I fell over in fact do you remember I broke my foot a couple of years ago so I had the other boot well yeah I was going I was going for a meeting in town so I thought and the traffic was really bad so I parked to the tram station and thought I'll get on the tram and as I you know you sort of look back and you think oh I've parked really badly there I looked back at the car and thought should I move it and then I sort of did go to turn around but I was already at the curb and just tripped over the curb right into almost the lap of this I don't know 15 year old girl who was just sort of sat there your honour so you know it wasn't great so I was just on the floor for a minute and just thought like if I broke something whatever and I clearly had I broke my foot I didn't find out until five days later but she just looked down she was like you alright mister like you know just know what you would do to someone who was like 18 I'm like I'm fine I do this

all the time didn't I still left the car parked really badly but yeah I think

when you fall it's just shock isn't it you're just in shock like you don't we're not I don't know I don't fall over very often but when I do I don't like it

who does well I love a trip me I did oh

I was in I was in a place of Nottingham once and this girl she blessed her she sort of she stepped off this tiny step and just went like defying the laws of physics just kept going and kept going and kept like every normal person would have stopped within like a metre and a half she just kept going and you go bang not even hands on the wall proper faceplant on the wall like the loudest and honest oh god I was like that and I could see I could see a friend of mine in the corner and she's proper corpsing and she's bless her but it just went on it's like she fell and you're like oh that's unfortunate but you know thankfully she'll not hit the wall it's about a mile and a half away she just kept going

anyway what is it about people falling it's just so funny though isn't it like you just

and you shouldn't laugh like you know and because you know how bad it is when you fall you know how humiliating it is as a fully grown grown adult to fall over like it's just ridiculous yet it's the funniest thing when it happens to somebody else it's a bit like

being hit in the nuts it's not funny and it's not but it just

so yeah getting hit

so you like being hit in the nuts or it's funny when someone else does pay a lot of money for that

it's just funny when it happens to you it is truly horrible but I mean I played a lot of cricket and you get that it's a bit like

how do we get here it's a bit like when you pull a nose hair out okay you pull it out and for I don't know half a second everything's fine and then it's like oh mother of god that's the most painful thing in the world and it's the same you see the ball come down you hear the bounce on the floor and you hear the ooooh and they go yeah it's just I don't know why it's funny but anyway to go back I'm just going to go into a bit of devil's advocate here because where we before this incredible high quality diatribe went on we were talking about not making people jump through hoops yeah conversely here I think sometimes it's a really good thing to make people jump through hoops and where I'm going with this is the fact that this should not be at the point of sale so if it is a transactional thing kind of like that you know minimal hoops get the money as quick as you can offer them the upsell do it make the process fun easy simple this is not what I'm talking about where I would kind of go that make them jump through hoops is that where you have a product that is not right for everyone so I kind of as an example I can think of well we you know we have a I don't know if you know it doesn't matter so a friend of mine does weddings and they're really nice kind of high end weddings yeah she finds a lot of her traffic online yeah because you're finding traffic online you have to not comb people out but actually you want to make sure you're spending your person to person time with people that know what they're getting and I think a lot of people will think okay it's this kind of wedding that's going to cost me I'll make it up 10 grand where actually it costs 12 grand so 20 grand 2 grand that's going to pay everyone up but you're not really getting the point here I don't even know if there is a point I'm just kind of filling the time and actually their process helps to weed people out so actually you make them jump through hoops so that you know you know straight from the start it's going to cost this sort of much and actually just make sure you are before you get to that transaction the transaction has to which is what we talked about has to be easy but just while we've kind of said this there is value in helping to kind of comb out to make sure you're spending relevant time with the right people yes I think

yeah the word here is pre-qualification

pre-qualifying the leads I mean yeah just to advocate your advocation if that's the word you know just to poke that devil a little bit more I think it's if you've got I think that's all well and good and I'm all up for that like about making your process as simple as possible so I would what I would add in there is and you know and this is just a talking point you might not have to do this if you've already got the experience but sometimes make sure that that is a problem before you try and solve it so for example in that scenario would you want to scare off those people who maybe have budgeted 10 grand for a wedding and I'm not saying we should be or shouldn't be because I don't know this industry at all but would you want to scare them off like I you know that area I have no like when people say to me what's your budget in something that I don't know I haven't got a fucking clue mate like I have got no idea how much this even costs so you need to educate me a little bit you know so like wedding you know it's like okay church costs sex flowers costs this whatever you know you can do it on a budget you can so I think sometimes if you're pre-qualifying people you might be excluding some people that may possibly would be your customer yeah but you know that being said if you are getting loads and loads of leads and you're wasting your time because half of the people that are coming to you or more than half or whatever the numbers are are actually like time wasters not necessarily they're wasting your time but they're not your customer then yes then pre-qualify so solve the problem fix the problem once you've got the problem because you don't know necessarily it's going to be a problem yeah I think that's it I think I'm

needless to say I don't think I've explained that particularly well at all I think kind of the point that I'm kind of labouring out there is that actually people there is a you know a misconception that this cup here because it's plain white is a five pound cup where actually this cup is a 75 pound cup and it's just that like that saying it at the start I'd almost got to have that you know when people apply yeah great we're really pleased you're interested in my cups here's some frequently asked questions and in there you've got a lot of people tend to think a white cup is a cheaper option actually because of it can actually be much more expensive than other cup options exactly I completely agree with your point I was just

adding into it because this could be the thing with a bike shop taking it full circle he could be there almost looking at customers the only smiles are the ones that he thinks can afford his bikes and he's got me wandering around the Victoria Centre middle of the afternoon just think you're not dressed like this there's literally no need to dress up to me today mate I've already had comments on today's choice of attire but

he might have looked at me and thought you're not our customer you're not going to be buying bikes from us and actually he's probably right but he doesn't know he doesn't know that I buy random things he doesn't know that I've got some golf clubs that I've had for 10 years that still have the stickers I took them down to the driving range recently I thought I'm going to sell these I should have done

and yeah pulled one out I thought

and then

probably got banned for another six years

I thought I'll try this club I thought that's a bit shiny inside the cellophane on it still had the and yeah found two or three like that I mean I don't know the difference between the clubs and the woods and whatever but you know I paid a lot of money for those golf sticks it was well I think that's it I think you know it's you don't know do you you know there are loads and loads of people that actually you don't expect and this is what they don't know what the passion is you know I remember you know kind of my old man when he kind of when he I think just as he's having my brother was born he was door-to-door he was door-to-door insurance salesman

and actually he was kind of saying to me that actually you know

they're like oh yeah we can't afford it and they'd come back next week or whatever it was and they've got a brand new motorbike and it's you know you don't know what different people find valuable so actually particularly things like cycling it's quite difficult to probably spot people because I know lots of people who their outward life doesn't necessarily look very affluent but will think nothing of spending kind of 10 grand on their hobby on their bike and I think you know I think the key in all this is that people just need to have a think what is going on that is sabotaging their money taking in whatever because there'll be something you know every business has sabotage and normally it's staff based you know that guy might have actually just been the shop runner which is probably not a thing the person that runs the shop and actually had no kind of concept which I get of standing at the front door may not be the sort of thing that's sabotage you know it's very rarely on purpose but it's going in there and I think you know anything that is possibly stopping someone buying or making it in any way difficult for them to buy you just have to get rid of now because there are a billion other options you know I bet there's nothing in that bike shop that I can't get elsewhere well I wouldn't know I wasn't allowed in

I think I think you know you've just you know with all of us and we'll do it there'll be some stuff in our world that we're doing this you know what is it what could be stopping people buying what it is and it's it's rarely I don't know my gut reaction is it's rarely anything to do with the mechanics of the product you know etc it'll be the stuff around it it'll be like you know your website button doesn't work it'll be like you are standing at the front of the shop and there's an interesting conversation today with someone that actually was saying you know he's realised now most shops no longer open their doors where for a long time every shop opened their doors and they had one of those heat curtain things you go in and your face singes off and you go in but with the environmental movement through now people aren't doing that and he was saying actually you see a lot of shops are reporting less walk-ins just from randoms because

it's another barrier and I know it sounds really simple but actually in my head that makes sense I can see actually yeah when they you know it is a small barrier but when you have to do it and you know particularly if it's an empty shop because you have to open the door and it's like a 1980s pub everyone stares or the owner stares and then you think well shit am I now going to be sold to I don't want a conversation I literally just wanted to come and you know buy this latex and then

then whatever it is but

yeah I think I think you know that's I think that's a really good

sorry everyone not about

not about the latex I think that's a really good point because actually you know on paper like let's just say we would talk to the owners of the bike shop you know they can be they can take two ways about this it's like well what you're saying is fucking ridiculous for one you know you're a grown ass man like it's a person stood at the door like yes of course you know why would that stop you coming in of course you know on paper it doesn't and you know probably 99 times out of 100 something like that like if I wanted to go into a shop it's not going to stop me you compare that like you know I used Apple as an example now when you go to Apple they do have people on the door you know greeting and asking what you're looking for and stuff like that but Apple are really fucking busy there was no one in that bike shop and I think that's the difference like sometimes you're oh you know we want to be like this you know so we're going to copy all this stuff that they do it's like

that would have stopped me going into a shop however like sometimes you just can't be bothered to talk can you like it was just you know I was just wandering through the thought popped into my head oh I'm going to have a look in this shop and then something stopped me and the thing that stopped me was that you know person that was either going to initiate a conversation ask me if I knew about bikes you know I was going to feel stupid because clearly I don't you know oh they've got two wheels

it was just something that physically stopped me going in there and it just prompted a thought in my head and that's what we want to do on these pockets we're not trying to offer the solutions we're not trying to

it's just stuff that we think about

that could help you

and that's it because you know I'd love us to have a solution for kind of anything but the reality is it doesn't exist what I think I hope this does for people is that they think I wonder what's happening in my business I wonder if that's what's my version of big Dave at the door sort of thing because it is we've said a hundred times all the powers with the consumer particularly if you're doing anything in the online space anything other than the perfect website which probably doesn't exist it's just going to put people off I can think of so many things where actually it's just really difficult to find what you're looking for things aren't

I'm the target market it's just not there people need to have a thing but they need to take it seriously they need to spend time trying to get their processes way better is there anything we're doing at the moment that's making it difficult for people to sell and there'll be a thing whatever it is and then you make the decision is it a real thing or not but yeah like us people need to think more about this kind of stuff yeah just thinking about things in general and actually like you know what what are the reasons

that you know people maybe aren't buying and maybe they're not as obvious as what you'll think there's generally something that you can do I feel there's always something that you can do and yeah we've spoke about cliches in series one you know thinking outside the box and things just actually look like the stuff that's just there plain as day in front of your face that maybe you're doing as business as usual because you think you should be doing it either having someone at the door or maybe you're directing people to the online booking website which is you've built yourself and it's shit just think about those things like I always think of it like a leaky bucket like your acquisition of your customers is really important so the awareness if you're at a high street shop people walking by you've always got awareness so does your shop look tidy and all those things is it welcoming do you want people to come inside everyone that walks by is a customer lost right so yeah just really think about that are

Amy and I were going to go away for a couple nights so really really I've got a really awesome hotel that I absolutely love we've been there a few times the

premiere what is it it's an inn formula

you know the ones

where you just get a pod

when you're really splashing out and treating the wife I take her to the premiere

not just any inn

and we're trying to I'm looking at trying to find another I don't know if it's a luxury boutique I don't really care but other things and there was this one and it was just booking was so difficult because you'd go and look and you couldn't do that date and it pushed you right into the back right into the start of it again and it just it didn't even drive me mad I just went I just kind of gave up and I you know that's the kind of thing is that you know and I would urge people here I don't know why I said urge like that but I'm pleased I've said it twice I would get people like the best thing you can do here is be conscious in your day to day because everybody listening to this both listeners will

my mum and yours both everybody listening to this will have got annoyed by something store it away and just check that's not happening because chances are someone's done the same thing about your business yeah

yeah absolutely that's probably a good time to wrap it up isn't it I think we've we've got the point across there I don't know what the point was but

there was a point to that

there's a point in there but as always let us know you know it's very easy to get in touch with us we're very easy to find I'm sure you can look at the show notes and stuff and we'll add the links and the sewn up

do you know what I'd love I would love people to I don't don't use names because that's not fair I would love people to share their kind of sales howlers like you know either they've done themselves or or kind of that they've experienced because that kind of compendium because the great thing about that is because god that's crazy oh shit I bet we do I bet we've got that so yeah I mean as ever you know kind of thank you listening you know like share get on the old subscribe but also drop us an email I'd just love to hear some of these because there'll be some real howlers out there which is kind of great stuff but actually is awesome to kind of share because it will be going on in your business too

it will indeed will indeed well there you go thank you very much and again Paul thank you very much for joining me today in the studio

oh pleasure mate and I'm delighted that you chose to wear trousers this time

well shorts but anyway close enough box of shorts it's been a pleasure and I will see you again for the next episode of Throb

see you next time

bye bye

we'll be back next week for another edition of the Throb podcast

if you want to find out more you can find me at paulchapmanuk.com

and you can find me Bertie at bertiecord.co.uk thanks again see you next week you